Traffic ticket on W&OD

[bobco85]

The intersection of Van Buren/19th St is one that the neighborhood residents have complained about, so I’m not surprised to hear of enforcement there. Considering there were no other vehicles/cyclists/pedestrians present at the time, it seems like such a ticky-tack reason for the ticket, but the cops go to areas where people complain the most (just do a search on this site for ticket blitzes on Union St in Old Town Alexandria).

What you described is an Idaho stop which a lot of cyclists do (including myself), but unfortunately that is not legal in the DC area. I tend to do Idaho stops in neighborhoods when there are few cars/peds around, but I always stay mindful of the fact that if a cop saw me do it, I’d probably get a ticket. Sorry to hear you got one in this case.

[mstone]

If this was at the intersection and not on the W&OD then it would be Arlington PD. Complain to ArlCo about the county wasting money on this instead of something to promote safety.

[chris_s]

@semperiden 140693 wrote:

I also want to educate myself in what you are supposed to do on those Stop signs on intersections of the trail (when you are not on the road). I usually only come to a full stop if I see a car on the road, but yield if I don’t see anything. I see all cyclists do the same.

I am not a lawyer.

Stop signs on trails are not currently enforceable in Virginia, because trails are not “highways”. There was “enabling legislation” passed a couple of years ago that gives localities the power to enact a local ordinance that would make stops signs on trails legally enforceable, but to the best of my knowledge none of them have done so. Arlington definitely hasn’t.

I am not a lawyer.

[lordofthemark]

note, afaik the stop signs on the trail itself are not enforceable, http://bikearlingtonforum.com/archive/index.php/t-3180.html though the City of Falls Church police have in the past attempted to enforce them.

But in all jurisdictions in this region stop signs on streets are enforceable against bikes (though the District is looking at changing that). And most do enforce from time to time, largely based on complaints. In the case of Alexandria I have heard a police spokesman claim that it was only egregious offenders who were ticketed, not people doing a proper Idaho stop (slowing and looking around, as one is obliged by law to do at a yield sign) at intersections where there was no cross traffic, but I have also heard from cyclists that that was not true, and people doing cautious Idahos were ticketed.

[Tania]

The police have been at that four way stop sign for a few weeks now on and off (it’s not on the W&OD proper).

I can completely understand why the residents complained about cyclists blowing through the four way stop sign (which is also a school bus stop). I’ve witnessed lots of bad behavior there especially heading east down the hill. It sucks that you got a ticket though when the intersection was completely clear (I usually Idaho stop too).

[semperiden]

Thank you for the input. So I guess the Idaho stop is fine when in the trail, but otherwise I have to dismount when on the road. I will have to come to a halt on those trail stop signs while in the trail until I am sure I don’t get points deducted from my license though. Another ticket for this would kill me.

[rcannon100]

@semperiden 140711 wrote:

…. I have to dismount when on the road….

I believe compliance with a stop sign means coming to a full stop and putting one’s foot down. That apparently is the interpretation of many local police.

[lordofthemark]

@semperiden 140711 wrote:

Thank you for the input. So I guess the Idaho stop is fine when in the trail, but otherwise I have to dismount when on the road. I will have to come to a halt on those trail stop signs while in the trail until I am sure I don’t get points deducted from my license though. Another ticket for this would kill me.

I don’t know of any local jurisdiction that would ticket you if you did a foot down stop without dismounting. IIUC many folks here consider slowing almost to a full stop, without actually putting a foot down, compliant with the law, but I am not sure the police and courts accept that.

[Subby]

If you do a wheelie *through* the intersection I think that international law precludes the officer from stopping you or writing a ticket. Something to consider.

[LeprosyStudyGroup]

@Subby 140717 wrote:

If you do a wheelie *through* the intersection I think that international law precludes the officer from stopping you or writing a ticket. Something to consider.

i KNEW my desire to learn to wheelie this year must have some kind of practical application

[huskerdont]

@LeprosyStudyGroup 140723 wrote:

i KNEW my desire to learn to wheelie this year must have some kind of practical application

I’ve done wheelies since I was a kid, but I don’t do them much anymore since I cracked my coccyx doing one a couple of years back. Getting old s*cks.

[semperiden]

@Subby 140717 wrote:

If you do a wheelie *through* the intersection I think that international law precludes the officer from stopping you or writing a ticket. Something to consider.

Haha. That is definitely something to consider.

[baiskeli]

@semperiden 140693 wrote:

I have been reading about bike laws since then, and the code says that you are actually a vehicle when riding

Only when riding on the street. On a trail, and when using crosswalks, you’re a pedestrian.

This stop sign might not be valid – is the speed limit of the road there 45 mph or more? If not, the county has no authority to put up that sign, and you could fight the ticket if you so desire.

In general, if you see a stop sign on a trail, stop. Treat it just like one on a road. I would stop even if you think it’s not a valid sign too, just for safety and to avoid having to fight a ticket in the first place and avoid a safety hazard since motorist may expect you to stop.

[baiskeli]

@chris_s 140707 wrote:

I am not a lawyer.

Stop signs on trails are not currently enforceable in Virginia, because trails are not “highways”. There was “enabling legislation” passed a couple of years ago that gives localities the power to enact a local ordinance that would make stops signs on trails legally enforceable, but to the best of my knowledge none of them have done so. Arlington definitely hasn’t.

I am not a lawyer.

I looked it up. Our very own state Sen. Barbara Favola sponsored a bill the Gen. Assembly recently passed that gave all local governments – not just Falls Church (I was wrong about that) the power to put up stop signs on trails in certain situations. If the speed limit of the road the trail is crossing is 45 mph or more, and there is no other traffic or pedestrian control there, they can put up a stop sign:

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?131+ful+SB959+pdf

[ShawnoftheDread]

The stop sign in question is on the road; the intersection of Van Buren and 19th. It’s relation to the trail is that WOD users use it to get from the section of trail ending in Banneker Park to the section along 66 just east of Lee Hwy. But it’s not actually part of the trail.

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