The Shoal Report

[hozn]

Yeah, I hope that I’m not coming off as endorsing the kind of behavior Dickie’s describing. That’s definitely unsafe (and justifiably angering). I will move in front (and to the right) of cars at an intersection if doing so lets me get out of their way so they can pass safely; I feel safer doing this than waiting in a the line of cars that are not accustomed to sharing the road with cyclists (and who I expect will try to pass me unsafely otherwise).

[Geoff]

@Powerful Pete 91678 wrote:

On my commute home I often ride the 15th street bike lane southbound. The lane ends at the intersection of 15th and Penn (or rather, there is an arrow there and what would be the bike lane is taken up by food trucks all the way to Constitution/Pennsylvania).

At rush hour, the light at 15th and Constitution/Pennsylvania ensures that the cars are bumper to bumper. I “filter” through to the light, and then proceed to get on the sidewalk paralleling 15th next to the Washington Monument and the Holocaust Memorial.

I do this because the one time I tried to ride that portion of sidewalk took forever and was, frankly dangerous for myself and all of the pedestrians.

I know this stretch well, and probably many people here do also. Usually I bypass the problem entirely by going through the Ellipse, but sometimes access is blocked. In which case I filter as far as I can (when the cars start preparing to turn right I get uncomfortable) and then hop onto the sidewalk and thread my way past the peds. I would rather not filter or go on the sidewalk here, but taking a place in line with the cars seems absurd.

[jnva]

@Geoff 91681 wrote:

I would rather not filter or go on the sidewalk here, but taking a place in line with the cars seems absurd.

I agree, and absurd is a good description. Might as well be comfortable in an air conditioned car if you are going to wait in traffic

[dplasters]

If I know the pace of the traffic due to lights will be 30 or less, I’ll filter all day. I know that I can generally keep up with the flow and not be constantly going back and forth with cars passing me and then me passing them. Which is just asking for trouble. Every situation is different.. despite having zero knowledge about the intersection/right hand turn in question I will go out and say…

I think the mindset of “I’ll bike because it is faster” isn’t necessarily a good one to have. In city traffic it can cause you to assume you deserve to be moving past idling cars through filtering or on sidewalks and putting yourself in needlessly risky situations (and looking like an ass). Just because something is legal, doesn’t make it a good idea. When you ride on crowded sidewalks, they hate you for a reason. You’re on a sidewalk and you yield to them. If its not safe to filter and the sidewalk is crowded you have two safe options: Walk your bike on the sidewalk, wait in traffic. Its not absurd. Its the reality of the situation. Frustrating? Sure. But I always read on these forums how ever time you’re on a bike you’re a spokesperson for the cycling community and there is doing what is right and doing what you think you should be able to do. Life sucks, we frequently don’t get what we think we should.

Again, I don’t know the exact setup of the intersection or the traffic pattern around it. What I’m hearing is “filtering isn’t safe” and “the sidewalk is filled with people” but “I can’t be bothered to wait in traffic” so i’ll filter through people on a busy sidewalk.

I think the better mindset is “I will enjoy getting from A to B way more and when I get there I’ll also know I got some good exercise in. If I can do it in the same time or faster than a car check me out!“

[Geoff]

@dplasters 91711 wrote:

If I know the pace of the traffic due to lights will be 30 or less, I’ll filter all day. I know that I can generally keep up with the flow and not be constantly going back and forth with cars passing me and then me passing them. Which is just asking for trouble. Every situation is different.. despite having zero knowledge about the intersection/right hand turn in question I will go out and say…

I think the mindset of “I’ll bike because it is faster” isn’t necessarily a good one to have. In city traffic it can cause you to assume you deserve to be moving past idling cars through filtering or on sidewalks and putting yourself in needlessly risky situations (and looking like an ass). Just because something is legal, doesn’t make it a good idea. When you ride on crowded sidewalks, they hate you for a reason. You’re on a sidewalk and you yield to them. If its not safe to filter and the sidewalk is crowded you have two safe options: Walk your bike on the sidewalk, wait in traffic. Its not absurd. Its the reality of the situation. Frustrating? Sure. But I always read on these forums how ever time you’re on a bike you’re a spokesperson for the cycling community and there is doing what is right and doing what you think you should be able to do. Life sucks, we frequently don’t get what we think we should.

Again, I don’t know the exact setup of the intersection or the traffic pattern around it. What I’m hearing is “filtering isn’t safe” and “the sidewalk is filled with people” but “I can’t be bothered to wait in traffic” so i’ll filter through people on a busy sidewalk.

I think the better mindset is “I will enjoy getting from A to B way more and when I get there I’ll also know I got some good exercise in. If I can do it in the same time or faster than a car check me out!“

I don’t think you and I have a quarrel. If we rode together you might well think me too faint of heart. I see people filter thru traffic when I would bail and going lickety-split on sidewalks where I’m flintstoning it. On the other hand I’ve been taken to task in situations where I really couldn’t see what the concern was. We all have to make judgement calls, do what we have to do, and try not to be a jerk in the process.

[jnva]

@dplasters 91711 wrote:

I think the better mindset is “I will enjoy getting from A to B way more and when I get there I’ll also know I got some good exercise in. If I can do it in the same time or faster than a car check me out!“

That’s exactly right. It turns out it’s always faster for me by bike and cheaper too. Win win. Check me out!

[dplasters]

@Geoff 91713 wrote:

I don’t think you and I have a quarrel. If we rode together you might well think me too faint of heart. I see people filter thru traffic when I would bail and going lickety-split on sidewalks where I’m flintstoning it. On the other hand I’ve been taken to task in situations where I really couldn’t see what the concern was. We all have to make judgement calls, do what we have to do, and try not to be a jerk in the process.

I believe we are likely in agreement. It can be very difficult when riding. Every situation really is different.

I really just wanted to point out that the mindset we have when we get on a bike can lead to very different outcomes. I have found myself riding too aggressively when I get in that “I shouldn’t have to wait in this” mindset. I simply wanted to share my own experience with having a better outlook on the road.

Racing cars* can be “fun” but it is not a great mindset for safe and courteous riding.

*Lets all be honest, we know drivers talk about how we slow down traffic, so when you know you are moving faster (or have the chance to) than they are it brings about a small ( or an impossibly large) amount of joy. But winning at the cost of lowered safety/courtesy to other road/path users should never be an option. But it is an easy trap to fall in to. It is similar to the driver who yearns for the moment to pass the cyclist on the one lane road even if there really isn’t room. Patience is important for everyone.

[creadinger]

@sethpo 91640 wrote:

Maybe it’s more like the law(s) of fluid mechanics and the smaller objects will always fill the voids. I mean, and this might be heresy to say in public, but I don’t always ride between lanes or along side of cars for safety reasons. Sometimes, it’s just about going where you can go until something forces you to stop.

There is absolutely something to this…. I especially hate this as a ped, or in crowds. As a tall person who likes my personal space, short people will undoubtedly filter in around me like grains of sand around a boulder.

[dasgeh]

I realized last night (on my ride home, of course) that the to-filter-or-not-to-filter has similarities to the when-to-merge question when a lane is going away.

In the latter (you know, on a crowded highway, where one lane is going away, and basically everyone is in a motor vehicle that can travel at roughly the same speed), the most efficient outcome for everyone (the most cars moved through in a set time frame) is to use every inch of pavement — which means that cars in the disappearing lane should stay in that lane and merge at the last possible moment. However, lots of people merge early, then call those who merge at the merge point jerks for “cutting in line”.

With bikes, you have the added complication that the acceleration and speed of bikes is different from that of cars. If they were the same, filtering should be the most efficient outcome for everyone — use all that pavement between cars at a stop light, and no one is slowed in the process. The fact that the acceleration and top speed of bikes changes things. I believe that it doesn’t matter in situations where the average car speed (taking into account lights) is the same as the average bike speed — in other words, bikes filtering doesn’t slow cars down, and moves more people more quickly, therefore being more efficient. The example that jumps to mind from my commute is G St NW between 17th and Virginia Ave. The lights there are timed so even the most aggressive car will stop, I think, 3 times. As a cyclist, I catch the cars by 23rd street, unless the line of cars is particularly long (let’s say 5 is the magic number) and I miss a light cycle.

Imagine a line of 6 cars turns onto G right before a line of 5 bikes. If the bikes filter, they’ll all get to 23rd with the first car, along with 3 other cars, meaning 9 people got from 17th to 23rd in X amount of time. If no bikes filter, then 5 cars get to 23rd (well almost, since the cars are all lined up behind each other) together, but none of the bikes. So 5 people got from 17th to 23rd in X amount of time.

Which do we, as a society want: 9 people to travel the distance in the given time, or 5 people?

[dasgeh]

@dplasters 91711 wrote:

When you ride on crowded sidewalks, they hate you for a reason. You’re on a sidewalk and you yield to them.

No. Someone riding a bike on a sidewalk, even a crowded one, is not a reason to hate them. Someone may be riding like a jerk, and that’s a reason to be annoyed that they’re acting like a jerk, but not hate.

Moreover, someone riding safely and lawfully on a sidewalk does not give anyone a reason to even be annoyed. I write this because we shouldn’t give peds a pass here. I ride on the sidewalk/path along Virginia Ave/bending onto 25th to get to the Kennedy Center daily. It’s a bike route on the DC bike map, but not signed on the street. I ride slowly, safely and lawfully (it’s West of 23rd). At least once a week – one ride out of five – I get berated by a pedestrian for being there. I’ve tried the alternative, and it is markedly less safe. I will ride behind peds until it is completely safe to pass, often for hundreds of feet. I don’t bother to ding or call out unless there’s room for them to be right. It doesn’t matter. They “hate” me for riding safely and lawfully where I am allowed to be and where it is safest for me to be, because they think that’s the right thing to do. It is not.

[dasgeh]

@dplasters 91711 wrote:

despite having zero knowledge about the intersection/right hand turn in question I will go out and say…

This particular stretch of road (15th NW b/n Penn and Constitution) is more complicated than my G Street example. For one, the pavement is terrible. Even if it’s all clear, I don’t ride there (one of our own was taken down by the bus-caused-moguls). But in the “what’s more efficient for all” analysis, the situation is complicated by the fact that bikes are going somewhere different than the cars. The cars are all lined up to get onto 395/Constitution-> I66. Bikes are generally either going to Ohio drive to get on the 14th St Bridge sidepath, or to Virginia Ave. If you look at just the intersection, of course it’s more efficient for all for bikes to filter (though not safe, because of the pavement). If you look more broadly, it’s probably also more efficient because, even when conditions are such that cars’ average trips are faster than bikes’, bikes splinter off to a different place, so more people move the distance in the given time if they filter.

[creadinger]

@dasgeh 91735 wrote:

Which do we, as a society want: 9 people to travel the distance in the given time, or 5 people?

I love your analysis, and maybe those are the decisions that city planners and traffic engineers would make. However, on the ground, at the time, (in today’s society) I don’t care if anyone else makes it through the light, as long as I’m first! 😮

[dplasters]

@dasgeh 91736 wrote:

No. Someone riding a bike on a sidewalk, even a crowded one, is not a reason to hate them. Someone may be riding like a jerk, and that’s a reason to be annoyed that they’re acting like a jerk, but not hate.

Moreover, someone riding safely and lawfully on a sidewalk does not give anyone a reason to even be annoyed. I write this because we shouldn’t give peds a pass here. I ride on the sidewalk/path along Virginia Ave/bending onto 25th to get to the Kennedy Center daily. It’s a bike route on the DC bike map, but not signed on the street. I ride slowly, safely and lawfully (it’s West of 23rd). At least once a week – one ride out of five – I get berated by a pedestrian for being there. I’ve tried the alternative, and it is markedly less safe. I will ride behind peds until it is completely safe to pass, often for hundreds of feet. I don’t bother to ding or call out unless there’s room for them to be right. It doesn’t matter. They “hate” me for riding safely and lawfully where I am allowed to be and where it is safest for me to be, because they think that’s the right thing to do. It is not.

I believe we might have different definitions of crowded sidewalk. There is a point where you have to get off and walk your bike to be safe. One wobble and you’re crushing someones foot or hitting them in the side with a handlebar. Perhaps if you are a very skilled rider, walking your bike is unnecessary, but you better believe all the walkers around you are nervous as hell that you are going to hit them. Which creates fear.. and then… The cyclists doesn’t get to decided when the walker is afraid for their safety. Same as a car doesn’t get to decide how far right is safe when on the road. I consider all sidewalks a walk first and ride if possible thing. If that was my 95 year old grandma, would I be happy seeing a cyclist riding how I’m riding?

I’d go with angry (if we are being specific about this) over annoyed. Annoyed doesn’t get you to the point of the consistent physical violence we see directed at cyclists.

I am familiar with the area as a pedestrian on the sidewalk. It is very wide with vendor trucks. Lots of pedestrian chaos (particularly during summer I would guess). There is no flow of the foot traffic, but that is on weekends.. I don’t know what it is like during the weekday/commute. It looks like an extremely challenging area. I hope everyone stays safe. But I can see why people would be annoyed, angry or upset given the type of foot traffic that area has. I haven’t ridden it as a cyclist. The humps in the pavement caused by the buses would indeed be extremely dangerous. I don’t think there is an answer. I’m just saying you aren’t glued to your seat and that sometimes, you just have to walk it to keep everyone safe.

[mstone]

@dplasters 91721 wrote:

I believe we are likely in agreement. It can be very difficult when riding. Every situation really is different.[/quote]

That part is fine. The part where you kinda go off the rails is when you start talking like other people are making stupid decisions because they want to be racey and aren’t making decisions based on their own evaluation of what is safe.

@dplasters 91749 wrote:

Perhaps if you are a very skilled rider, walking your bike is unnecessary, but you better believe all the walkers around you are nervous as hell that you are going to hit them. Which creates fear.. and then… The cyclists doesn’t get to decided when the walker is afraid for their safety. Same as a car doesn’t get to decide how far right is safe when on the road. I consider all sidewalks a walk first and ride if possible thing. If that was my 95 year old grandma, would I be happy seeing a cyclist riding how I’m riding?[/quote]

Same here. If you want to call out specific, unarguably unsafe behavior (like giving insufficient space when passing), that’s fine. But you’re simply going a bridge to far to say that the problem is “cycling on the sidewalk”. Hint: we don’t get to decide when pedestrians are nervous, and the pedestrians also don’t get to decide when we’re cycling lawfully–the law does that for us. I can try to be respectful of other people, but at a certain point if someone has an irrational fear of me based on the behavior of someone else, that’s on them more than it is on me, and THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT other than ride safely and get away from them. I think some pedestrians are jerks, but that has not yet meant that I can expect all pedestrians to stay away from me nor would it be completely sane for me to demand such anyway. Yeah, things would be nicer if fewer people had irrational hatred of cyclists but THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT THAT. (Platitudes about “being the change” or whatever are fine, but reality is that you can be as sweet as honey and the irrational hatey guy will forget about you 10 seconds later but will be ranting about the jackhole cyclist for the next 5 years.) Given all that, it’s unreasonable to expect me to do anything but try to keep myself safe, not endanger others, and get where I’m going.

As far as filtering, it’s a another tool in the bag and I do it when it makes sense. For me, that’s just about exclusively at a few suburban lights where the stay-in-lane option means that cars are going to be accelerating around me too closely at 40+MPH while looking at the light and the right turn lane (not at me). In those cases I find it far safer to get to the front and get across the street quickly so that we’re back to normal driving rather than watching-the-light acceleration tests. Heck, there’s even often a shoulder on the far side, which was eaten by the turn lane on the near side–like a promised land if you can only make it there. Note: I have no expectation that I’m going to stay ahead of any of the cars going 40+MPH so I can assure you I’m not racing anybody. I can also be pretty sure that there won’t be any other cyclists at the light, and that the cars will manage to get around me just fine, even if I am wider than some.

[83b]

Just….grrrrr….

http://www.citylab.com/navigator/2014/08/cyclists-lets-talk-about-shoaling/379232/

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