The Ethics of Breaking Traffic Laws

[ImaCynic]

And also the only place where football is played with hands only…

[ImaCynic]

@consularrider 177430 wrote:

FYI, the US is just about the only place in the world I’ve ridden where anyone at all call their passes.

And also the only place where football is played with hands only…

[ImaCynic]

@streetsmarts 177424 wrote:

I haven’t had time to read the article but will share anyway. Cause I wanted to but haven’t had a chance.

Recently..riding south on 11th st. In morning bike traffic. Around V or W st. I believe, we approached a stop sign – me and the 7 or 8 cyclists in front of me.

The first 1 or 2 went through the intersection.

However as I approached I saw a woman and her dog waiting to safely cross 11th st.
I stopped at the stop sign. I had time to see her and stop because I slowed like I always do .and because it’s the safe thing to do.

6! Cyclists coming behind me blew through the stop sign even as I yelled “STOP there’s a pedestrian trying to cross!”. They did not.

Then ..their just desserts..I caught up with said cyclists at the U st. Stop light.

They told me I should shut up. That they could go through as a group. And that I wasn’t the bike police (ok point taken – maybe I should just model the good behavior).

But why the heck can’t you be bothered to stop at a stop sign *when a ped is WAITING and wanting to cross*??

Seems a little courtesy to peds – and obeying the law– would be helpful and help our image as scofflaws.

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Sadly, these are the ones that give cyclists a bad rap and others have to suffer the consequences because of it.

[Crickey7]

Yes, our Danish exchange student was explaining the fast lane/slow lane unwritten rules on the bike paths of Copenhagen. Apparently she and her mother were ignorant at first, and those in the know less than understanding.

[rcannon100]

@f148vr 177435 wrote:

Sadly, these are the ones that give cyclists a bad rap and others have to suffer the consequences because of it.

Please. The bad rap is that we are not driving cars. You could obey traffic laws 100%. The traffic tribe driving 1 ton of steel and belching petroleum products into the atmosphere would still scream at you to get the hell out of the way.

The most horn honking I have heard lately?? Directed at car drivers who yielded to pedestrians in cross walks – honking from the cars behind.

They hate you because you are in their way. It is not a moral evaluation.

[ImaCynic]

Here’s my take – Traffic laws are mainly used to establish right of way, and come into play and must be observed when multiple parties are involved. However, when I’m the only one at a red light or stop sign, the right of way is somewhat implicit, so I tend not to dissipate all that beautiful kinetic energy into wasted heat. If that’s breaking the law, I’m guilty.

[musclys]

@rcannon100 177437 wrote:

Please. The bad rap is that we are not driving cars. You could obey traffic laws 100%. The traffic tribe driving 1 ton of steel and belching petroleum products into the atmosphere would still scream at you to get the hell out of the way.

The most horn honking I have heard lately?? Directed at car drivers who yielded to pedestrians in cross walks – honking from the cars behind.

They hate you because you are in their way. It is not a moral evaluation.

Worse, tort law in the DMV works against cyclists, and pedestrians, because this is one of the only places in the country where contributory negligence still serves as a bar to recovery. So a cyclists is 10% at fault but a driver is 90% at fault. The cyclist won’t recover for 90% of their injuries — they get 0%. Add, of course, the cyclist, or pedestrian, are much more likely to be seriously injured than, say, another driver.

And as for “they hate you because you are in their way” — THAT is 100%. A few months ago, using the crosswalk to cross Dolly Madison Blvd, I had two different drivers give me the finger as they sped by in the second lane, and then, while I waited for cars in the second lane to slow, the car that had actually stopped in the first lane yelled at me to get the f out of the road. But what do they care? These people never walk — or ride — anywhere. We are the problem.

[dasgeh]

@musclys 177441 wrote:

Worse, tort law in the DMV works against cyclists, and pedestrians, because this is one of the only places in the country where contributory negligence still serves as a bar to recovery. So a cyclists is 10% at fault but a driver is 90% at fault. The cyclist won’t recover for 90% of their injuries — they get 0%. Add, of course, the cyclist, or pedestrian, are much more likely to be seriously injured than, say, another driver.

And as for “they hate you because you are in their way” — THAT is 100%. A few months ago, using the crosswalk to cross Dolly Madison Blvd, I had two different drivers give me the finger as they sped by in the second lane, and then, while I waited for cars in the second lane to slow, the car that had actually stopped in the first lane yelled at me to get the f out of the road. But what do they care? These people never walk — or ride — anywhere. We are the problem.

This is only true in the MV now – DC passed a law to change contributory negligence.

[trailrunner]

@rcannon100 177437 wrote:

The most horn honking I have heard lately?? Directed at car drivers who yielded to pedestrians in cross walks – honking from the cars behind.

Yesterday I was driving up Rolling Road, just north of Old Keene Mill Road, about 4:30 pm. An older gentleman was standing on the corner, trying to cross Rolling Road *in the crosswalk*. After watching a police car drive by and not stop, I had the audacity to stop to let the poor man cross. The car next to me did the right thing and stopped too. For a moment I thought that I was going to get rear-ended, and then the horns started honking behind us.

That was the best thing I did all day.

[lordofthemark]

@f148vr 177438 wrote:

Here’s my take – Traffic laws are mainly used to establish right of way, and come into play and must be observed when multiple parties are involved. However, when I’m the only one at a red light or stop sign, the right of way is somewhat implicit, so I tend not to dissipate all that beautiful kinetic energy into wasted heat. If that’s breaking the law, I’m guilty.

If a cyclist Delaware’s a stop sign in Fairlington, and no one see’s him except for one “gadfly” peeking through a window, does he make a sound?

[dplasters]

@trailrunner 177445 wrote:

Yesterday I was driving up Rolling Road, just north of Old Keene Mill Road, about 4:30 pm. An older gentleman was standing on the corner, trying to cross Rolling Road *in the crosswalk*. After watching a police car drive by and not stop, I had the audacity to stop to let the poor man cross. The car next to me did the right thing and stopped too. For a moment I thought that I was going to get rear-ended, and then the horns started honking behind us.

That was the best thing I did all day.

Not to be that person, but if you are talking about where I think you are talking about on Rolling, the speed limit is 40mph. Which means you are not to yield to the pedestrian.

§ 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty.
A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

[trailrunner]

@dplasters 177489 wrote:

Not to be that person, but if you are talking about where I think you are talking about on Rolling, the speed limit is 40mph. Which means you are not to yield to the pedestrian.

§ 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty.
A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

I said that he was in a clearly marked crosswalk. Isn’t that covered in section 1 of the law you cited?

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[dplasters]

@trailrunner 177493 wrote:

I said that he was in a clearly marked crosswalk. Isn’t that covered in section 1 of the law you cited?

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I dunno, are they ‘ands’ or ‘ors’? What’s the definition of at the crosswalk? is that waiting on the sidewalk? do you have to be in the crosswalk already? I find piles of the code confusing. What does it mean to not disregard traffic? pffffffffffffttttttttttt

[hozn]

@dplasters 177494 wrote:

I dunno, are they ‘ands’ or ‘ors’? What’s the definition of at the crosswalk? is that waiting on the sidewalk? do you have to be in the crosswalk already? I find piles of the code confusing. What does it mean to not disregard traffic? pffffffffffffttttttttttt

Surely the lawyers will chime in, but it seems pretty clear to me that the crosswalk is the key differentiator between #1 and #3 — i.e. not whether the person is crossing at an intersection, since they call out that the crosswalk may be at an intersection: “At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;”

[Steve O]

@dplasters 177489 wrote:

Not to be that person, but if you are talking about where I think you are talking about on Rolling, the speed limit is 40mph. Which means you are not to yield to the pedestrian.

§ 46.2-924. Drivers to stop for pedestrians; installation of certain signs; penalty.
A. The driver of any vehicle on a highway shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian crossing such highway:

1. At any clearly marked crosswalk, whether at mid-block or at the end of any block;

2. At any regular pedestrian crossing included in the prolongation of the lateral boundary lines of the adjacent sidewalk at the end of a block;

3. At any intersection when the driver is approaching on a highway or street where the legal maximum speed does not exceed 35 miles per hour.

I’m not exactly clear on where this gentleman was standing, but the way I read this, #2 supersedes #3. So if there are sidewalks that come to the corner, even if there is no crosswalk striping, that still requires yielding the right of way, regardless of speed limit.

[Author]

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