The dangers of salmoning

[jrenaut]

There are a million dangers to salmoning. The biggest of which is that cars turning onto the road on which you are salmoning may not check in your direction before turning. I almost hit a girl going the wrong way on 15th St NW because I didn’t check for someone coming down the bike lane the wrong way. I almost hit a guy at dusk right in front of my house because he was coming towards me with no lights on, wrong way on a one way street.

If you’re going to salmon a block because of some ridiculous traffic pattern on a non-busy street, I’m not going to fault you for it. Anywhere else and you’re a hazard to yourself and others.

[Subby]

The sub-title of this thread should be Wear Your ^&%$# Helmet!

[dasgeh]

It’s so, so sad.

Though the article is a reminder when in doubt, to stop. Obviously, we don’t know the story there, but as the story correctly points out, in a collision with two objects traveling towards each other, the force of collison is the sum of their speeds. So you may slow to a crawl (say 5mph) and if a salmoning cyclist hits you going 10mph, that’s like a 15mph collision. Imagine a game of chicken, of sorts, where two cyclists coming at each other didn’t have a lot of space, and both want to keep going, so they run into/veer into each other. If one of them just stops, there may still be a collision, but significantly less force.

[mello yello]

Yeah, but even more tragic is the 9yo kid in Bowie yesterday that was killed doing pretty much the same thing… riding wrong way down a major street and then sharp turn in front of an SUV.

The real tragedy is that these types of accidents are entirely preventable, with common sense… but not everyone is taught to be PAL from an early age.

[thucydides]

@jrenaut 58206 wrote:

There are a million dangers to salmoning. The biggest of which is that cars turning onto the road on which you are salmoning may not check in your direction before turning. I almost hit a girl going the wrong way on 15th St NW because I didn’t check for someone coming down the bike lane the wrong way. I almost hit a guy at dusk right in front of my house because he was coming towards me with no lights on, wrong way on a one way street.

If you’re going to salmon a block because of some ridiculous traffic pattern on a non-busy street, I’m not going to fault you for it. Anywhere else and you’re a hazard to yourself and others.

Absolutely right. In fact I was just telling a kid yesterday not to salmon the bike lanes on John Marshall for exactly this reason. Drivers aren’t accustomed to looking for something coming the wrong way like that. Even if they look they may not “see” you because you’re not supposed to be there. The kid shrugged me off but I bet he remembers it next time.

[PotomacCyclist]

When ever I see a cyclist heading toward me going the wrong way, I politely point out “you’re going the wrong way.” I try not to be confrontational about it. I’m just hoping that they will understand that they shouldn’t ride against traffic and I hope they alter their behavior going forward. Most of them just ignore me or try to hide their embarrassment. One guy meekly said “I know” but I don’t understand that response.

The only problem I had was just in the past week. I was doing some quick intervals on a long empty street one evening. No cars around at all, and it’s usually a safe place to do some faster riding in the evening. (Not Hains Point.) But that time, I glanced up and saw two teenagers or 20-somethings riding directly at me, even though there are two lanes in both directions and no cars in sight on any of the lanes. They just decided that they should ride on the wrong side of the road because… well, I’m not sure.

I rode in between the two, not missing them by too much, since there were two of them. I was annoyed and said, as usual, “you’re going the wrong way.” This time, I was a bit more peeved than usual, because there was no reason whatsoever for them to be salmoning and if I hadn’t noticed them, we could have collided head on. One guy immediately turned at me and started shouting “F*** you!” (There was also the driver who was screaming at me last week, so it wasn’t exactly the most calm week for me on the roads.) I don’t know what he was so upset about. He and his buddy were riding the wrong way on an empty street where there was plenty of room for them to ride on the right side of the road. It’s not as though they just wandered over either. There’s a raised median in the road so they made a conscious choice to ride down the wrong way.

I’ve also seen groups of teenagers/20-somethings walking right down the road (Potomac Ave. in Alexandria), blocking both lanes and not even moving when a car approaches. There is a wide asphalt bike/ped path right next to the road, so there is no reason at all to be walking in the street like that. Well, at least no acceptable or legitimate reason. This doesn’t happen too often, but I’ve seen it at least a few times.

[jrenaut]

@PotomacCyclist 58248 wrote:

[A story about a****les]

Some people are just a****les.

[Terpfan]

@PotomacCyclist 58248 wrote:

When ever I see a cyclist heading toward me going the wrong way, I politely point out “you’re going the wrong way.” I try not to be confrontational about it. I’m just hoping that they will understand that they shouldn’t ride against traffic and I hope they alter their behavior going forward. Most of them just ignore me or try to hide their embarrassment. One guy meekly said “I know” but I don’t understand that response.

The only problem I had was just in the past week. I was doing some quick intervals on a long empty street one evening. No cars around at all, and it’s usually a safe place to do some faster riding in the evening. (Not Hains Point.) But that time, I glanced up and saw two teenagers or 20-somethings riding directly at me, even though there are two lanes in both directions and no cars in sight on any of the lanes. They just decided that they should ride on the wrong side of the road because… well, I’m not sure.

I rode in between the two, not missing them by too much, since there were two of them. I was annoyed and said, as usual, “you’re going the wrong way.” This time, I was a bit more peeved than usual, because there was no reason whatsoever for them to be salmoning and if I hadn’t noticed them, we could have collided head on. One guy immediately turned at me and started shouting “F*** you!” (There was also the driver who was screaming at me last week, so it wasn’t exactly the most calm week for me on the roads.) I don’t know what he was so upset about. He and his buddy were riding the wrong way on an empty street where there was plenty of room for them to ride on the right side of the road. It’s not as though they just wandered over either. There’s a raised median in the road so they made a conscious choice to ride down the wrong way.

I’ve also seen groups of teenagers/20-somethings walking right down the road (Potomac Ave. in Alexandria), blocking both lanes and not even moving when a car approaches. There is a wide asphalt bike/ped path right next to the road, so there is no reason at all to be walking in the street like that. Well, at least no acceptable or legitimate reason. This doesn’t happen too often, but I’ve seen it at least a few times.

I had a moped salmon me this morning. And stopped just in front of me to quickly dart onto the sidewalk full of people. And to think motorists complain about us! I couldn’t believe the guy and then I thought, well, given all the other insane things I see happen, maybe he’s more par to the course then I want to admit.

[NicDiesel]

For a long time I tried to be very nice when I had people salmoning towards me and gently rang my bell and called out “you’re going the wrong way”. Now, after way too many close calls and clueless headphone disabled bozos ignoring me, I very loudly yell “hey Dumas, you’re going the wrong way – with traffic, not against.” For the most part I get ignored, a few people (sheepishly) apologize and safely correct their indiscretion, and a very select few of them take exception and yell back the usual “f you, go to hell…etc.”.

Fittingly, a guy in my work building is really bad about salmoning and has drawn my ire a number of times for blazing down Crystal Drive the wrong way with no lights on. I saw him earlier today with a cast on his arm and asked him what happened. Turns out he was salmoning (and screwing with his phone) earlier this week when he finally looked up and realized another cyclist was coming towards him with traffic. Dude tried to swerve on the sidewalk to miss the cyclist but instead flipped and landed on his arm. What a putz.

Seriously, if you’re salmoning for a short distance in a stretch where there are few options (i.e. off the 14th Street Bridge by the memorial) no big deal, that’s a pretty quick spot that’s usually clear of automobile and pedestrian traffic. But down a bike lane against heavy traffic distracted? You get what you deserve.

[dasgeh]

What about saying something like “I don’t want to see you get hurt or hurt someone else — please don’t salmon”?

Honestly, I don’t think other options would be effective. People know what they’re doing is wrong. Being aggressive just makes people defensive (and possibly worse). Maybe there’s some hope if you give them a reason to care.

I’ve toyed with taking a similar tack with people who run reds on the Custis. There are some where, even if you run them, you’ll be caught by the red at Fort Myer. So I stop, people pass me and run them, then I catch up at Fort Myer. I’ve been trying to figure out an effective way to word “See – you don’t have to run reds to end up in the same place” or something like that.

[baiskeli]

@dasgeh 58277 wrote:

What about saying something like “I don’t want to see you get hurt or hurt someone else — please don’t salmon”?.

That’s good, except most salmon probably dont’ know what “to salmon” means.

I’ve toyed with taking a similar tack

Thank you for not saying “tact.”

[NicDiesel]

The flip side of not being aggressive about calling people out when they’re doing things patently dangerous like salmoning in heavy traffic or riding completely distracted is that you’re giving them a pass. I think a lot of people that get on bikes forget that they’re to be treated like an automobile – obey traffic signs, ride with traffic, don’t ride distracted, don’t be aggressive, pass with safe distances. If inconveniencing some of these bozos by being loud is what it takes to keep them from causing a major injury or accident, so be it.

[americancyclo]

@dasgeh 58277 wrote:

I’ve been trying to figure out an effective way to word “See – you don’t have to run reds to end up in the same place” or something like that.

That’s hard to do without sounding smug, or at least I haven’t thought of any good way to say it either. I just had a conversation at lunch about conflict and the beliefs that others are wrong. It may be unlikely that any conversation you have will change their behavior, and it may be the least agitating for everyone (ourselves included) to allow people to be wrong and work on not feeling compelled to correct them or ‘save them’. The intent may derive from compassion and a concern for others safety, but it can quickly be driven by a personal sense of right and wrong. Try taking the opportunity to breathe, pedal easy, and learn more about what buttons lead you to conflict so you can avoid or develop coping strategies.

[KLizotte]

@NicDiesel 58269 wrote:

Fittingly, a guy in my work building is really bad about salmoning and has drawn my ire a number of times for blazing down Crystal Drive the wrong way with no lights on. I saw him earlier today with a cast on his arm and asked him what happened. Turns out he was salmoning (and screwing with his phone) earlier this week when he finally looked up and realized another cyclist was coming towards him with traffic. Dude tried to swerve on the sidewalk to miss the cyclist but instead flipped and landed on his arm. What a putz.

Poetic justice.

[mstone]

@NicDiesel 58286 wrote:

I think a lot of people that get on bikes forget that they’re to be treated like an automobile – obey traffic signs, ride with traffic, don’t ride distracted, don’t be aggressive, pass with safe distances.

You must be new to cars? I think the problem is that people ride their bikes exactly like they drive their automobiles, but then for some reason it’s my responsibility because I’m also on a bike.

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