The constitutional right of pedestrians to jaywalk anywhere, anytime?

[MCL1981]

Yes. People are jerks. Always have been. Always will be. This will not change and there is no way to stop it. No sense griping about that which will never change.

[PotomacCyclist]

Actually I’m hoping that at least a few people (forum lurkers) might read this and either rethink what they do. Or it might start up a real-world conversation somewhere that an aggressive jaywalker might overhear, and that conversation could lead to some self-reflection and consideration of their road behavior. It’s part of developing a more responsible road culture, among drivers, cyclists, runners, walkers, dog walkers, roller bladers and others. One comment might not change a lot, but many comments over a period of time might help to improve matters. Same thing with texting while driving, aggressive driving, red light running (by drivers and cyclists), crossing over the dividing line to pass on bike trails, etc.

[mstone]

@PotomacCyclist 21693 wrote:

Actually I’m hoping that at least a few people (forum lurkers) might read this and either rethink what they do. Or it might start up a real-world conversation somewhere that an aggressive jaywalker might overhear, and that conversation could lead to some self-reflection and consideration of their road behavior. It’s part of developing a more responsible road culture, among drivers, cyclists, runners, walkers, dog walkers, roller bladers and others. One comment might not change a lot, but many comments over a period of time might help to improve matters. Same thing with texting while driving, aggressive driving, red light running (by drivers and cyclists), crossing over the dividing line to pass on bike trails, etc.

Nope, not a chance. Everyone is convinced that their own behavior is correct and will not be convinced otherwise.

[MCL1981]

Riding on Penn this evening, a crowd of about 12 morons decided to just stroll across all 6 lanes in mid block. They saw me cruising towards them at about 15mph. I made no indication of slowing down for them so they stopped in the middle of the road. The lead moron actually held up his hand like a traffic cop to signal me to stop and allow them to continue jaywalking across the street. I rode by the hand, shaking my head in disgust, and yelled “You’re jaywalking, I’m not stopping for you idiots”. They heard me, and mumbled something incompetent that I couldn’t hear. Others on the sidewalk laughed at them.

This made me happy for a number of reasons. One, I won, they lost. Two, I got to vent at them, and they heard me. Three, others laughed at them.

For those wondering, of course I was not planning to plow through them like bowling pins. My intention was come careening to a skidding stop right in their face. This would accomplish two and three above, in addition to scaring the crap of them. But since numbnuts decided to play self-appointed traffic cop, I decided to keep going.

[5555624]

@PotomacCyclist 21678 wrote:

As we were headed up a road, a woman walked into the road without even looking to see if there were any oncoming cars.

This is my big beef — pedestrians hardly ever look before crossing the street. When I was a kid, I was taught to look both ways before crossing the street and I do it to this day. I’m convinced that no one gets taught this anymore. Do I jaywalk? Sometimes, but I always look and never step out in front of a car or bike.

When riding on the streets, if a pedestrian is near the curb, they’re going to step into the street. (Just like on the trail I assume that a bell or “on your left” has a good chance of getting someone to jump to the left.)

Never underestimate the stupidity of pedestrians (or drivers or cyclists).

[thucydides]

One thing about pedestrians that befuddles me all the time is when they stand in the road waiting for the light to change. And I’m not talking about standing just off the curb but often 3 or 4 feet into the right lane. Why? Is this like those people who keep pushing the elevator button thinking that somehow the elevator will come sooner or, in this case, the light will change faster?

[txgoonie]

One of my beefs is groupthink. I was in Ballston on the way back from a ride stopped on Quincy at the light at Fairfax Dr. as a bunch of teens – probably 50 of them – started to cross Quincy in front of us as the pedestrian light started to flash. Naturally when the light turned green they were all still spread clear across the street, ambling slowly, blocking all of the cross traffic. Not one of them looked as if he or she was trying to speed up. No one said anything. I was on my bike not posing much of a threat but I inched forward and suggested calmly something like, “get the h*ll out of the street!” Maybe not the nicest way to say something, but a couple of them did start to trot when they heard the “Mom” voice. It was probably Pavlovian;-)

Along the same lines, there may be a crowd of people at a light crossing, waiting for the light to turn. If one person makes the dumb decision to start across before the light changes, other people will follow no matter how dangerous the move is! I refuse to do that. I’ll make 15 people walk around me before I contribute to a dangerous or discourteous situation.

[Dirt]

@txgoonie 21739 wrote:

One of my beefs is groupthink.

Perhaps group-not-think is a better description of the behavior.

Rock on!

Pete

[pfunkallstar]

I’m all for freedom of idiocy. However, the Arlnow example that you linked to sounds more like a suicide attempt, which I’m not for, since we have bunnies http://www.dailybunny.com/.

Whenever I need moral anchoring, I go straight for Star Trek, a guiding light, expect for Voyager and most of Deep Space Nine. Anyways, “without followers, evil cannot spread.” Vent it out, lead by example, and look at some bunnies.

An old home brewing adage is RDWHAHB – Relax Don’t Worry Have a Homebrew.

[rcannon100]

Always have been. Always will be.

This is not entirely true.

A first issue is faulty infrastructure. We have a transportation infrastructure that is crap (take the GW Parkway crossings). Where the infrastructure is crap, it leads people to solve the problem themselves. This in and of itself can be bad, but then people start solving the situation in conflicting ways.

Route 50 is a good example. There are large populations on either side that well like each other. ArlCo has solved the problem some. There is a good bridge at TJ. There is a good bridge at 7Corners. Where the accident took place, I dont have sufficient facts, but the pedestrian could have gone under Route 50 on Washington. Washington is on the slate for major improvements, including a bike path.

ArlCo is very good about it. But not perfect. Other places are simply atrocious and it is no surprise to see people jaywaking.

Second, it is a cultural thing. Apparently the jaywaying / accident rate over in Wheaton is way off the chart. And this is reportedly with cops out ticketing and educating people.

Finally it is an enforcement thing. Traffic enforcement has changed dramatically over the last 30 years. If I read it correctly, in Arlington, although Arlington has seen tremendous growth in 20 years, the police force has not expanded. There is a big “well duh” problem.

* Infrastructure (we can change it)
* Culture (it is changeable)
* Enforcement (it can be improved)

It is massively unfortunate. I must say, I use these incidents regularly as “teaching moments.”

[MCL1981]

I scared some more jaywalking peds on Penn this morning. I love it. When there is no traffic, peds usually cross against the don’t walk signal. I have no problem with this. I do it all the time too. If there are no cars in sight, I’m not going to stand there for nothing either. But for the love of god, OPEN YOUR EYES. How do these people not see my bike coming at them??? You can see the flashing lights from New Jersey. Planes follow me by accident. The president’s motorcade use me to clear a path. If you don’t see me coming at you, then you’re not going to see a small car either.

Anyway, as usual, I hold my course and speed. They are in my right of way, they’re going to move out of my way, not the other way around. The ones that don’t get are going to end up with a close encounter. I’ll never hit someone or cause harm. But coming to screeching stop in their face and scaring the shit out of them, absolutely. I don’t block your cross walk while I’m waiting for the light. So don’t block my road while jaywalking.

[Tim Kelley]

I find that poorly maintained disc brakes which make an extra loud screeching noise when braking gets a jaywalking pedestrian’s attention quite quickly!

[jabberwocky]

I’ve found that screaming “NO BRAKES! NO BRAKES!” as I come up on jaywalking pedestrians gets them to move out of the way quickly (or at least do something amusing). Dirt taught me that one.

Someday I’ll start a company that makes bike-mounted cowcatchers and make a mint.

[Mark Blacknell]

Funny, this thread is lending a lot of credence to the cyclists: pedestrians as drivers:cyclists claim.

[dasgeh]

+1 to Mark’s comment about this sounding a bit like drivers v. cyclists. There are pedestrians who break the rules. But pedestrians are the most vulnerable on the road, so they have every incentive to, if not follow the rules, act in a way that doesn’t pose a threat to others.

So while I agree that it would be awesome if pedestrians would follow the rules, it really seems like we should concentrate enforcement resources on the road users that pose the most danger to others (cars and trucks), and concentrate our advocacy efforts on making the infrastructure safer for the vulnerable road users, including pedestrians. I think that the infrastructure is safer when it’s easy to use and meets the needs of the users, e.g. better timing of lights so pedestrians get a walk signal when there are no cars around, and therefore aren’t tempted to jaywalk.

@rcannon100 21751 wrote:

* Culture (it is changeable)

I worry that “culture” on the streets in Arlington is a very hard thing to develop, because so many of the people (mainly drivers, but also peds and cyclists) are not Arlingtonians, and are not even in Arlington all that much, that it’s hard to involve them in the development of culture.

Total side note: Apparently I can’t like posts anymore.

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