Surley Straggler with 650b wheels coming soon!

[cyclingfool]

Cool! There seems to be growing interest in 650b from many quarters. I know tire selection seems sparse compared to other sizes, but just poking around online I found a decent selection of tires from road to touring to mountain in a range of prices from $18 and up from brands like Panaracer, Continental, Schwalbe, and even some studs from Nokian! In any case, it was a better selection than I thought I would come across.

[mstone]

I’m pondering what, exactly, you need to do to a disc frame to make it fit 650b as an option to 700c. This sounds more like a brilliant marketing move than anything, and maybe just a wheel option if you buy a complete bike.

[hozn]

There must be a typo on their specs page when they say that 700×42 fit with fenders on that frame. They must mean 650×42. As mstone says, that sounds like it would be the same frame (as the regular straggler). Running 700c tires on a 650B frame is an odd suggestion. Of course nothing to stop you putting 650B wheels on the 700c (disc) frame. I considered doing that with my off-road commuter wheelset so I could run proper 2.0 MTB tires, but in reality 700×45 is plenty big for my off-road needs (for that bike).

[Steve]

@mstone 90737 wrote:

I’m pondering what, exactly, you need to do to a disc frame to make it fit 650b as an option to 700c. This sounds more like a brilliant marketing move than anything, and maybe just a wheel option if you buy a complete bike.

I’m not the smartest person on this stuff, but perhaps just they chose more inbetween hights/distances/gapping for the geometry. Like a bike designed for 650b normally might not fit a 700c wheel due to clearances around the fork and stays, but even if those were fine, the 700c might raise the bike up to a poor handling bottom bracket height, too much toe overlap, or other unintended changes. With disc brakes and surly tire clerance, it seems like you could always go for 700c or 650b, but some of those other issues might make for a poor ride.

I know that my Disc Trucker clearly appears to have room for 700c wheels, even though it has 26″ wheels. But my guess is the ride wouldn’t be the best.

[Steve]

@hozn 90740 wrote:

There must be a typo on their specs page when they say that 700×42 fit with fenders on that frame. They must mean 650×42. As mstone says, that sounds like it would be the same frame (as the regular straggler). Running 700c tires on a 650B frame is an odd suggestion. Of course nothing to stop you putting 650B wheels on the 700c (disc) frame. I considered doing that with my off-road commuter wheelset so I could run proper 2.0 MTB tires, but in reality 700×45 is plenty big for my off-road needs (for that bike).

Or what Hozn said. I had skimmed it. Looks like a typo probably.

[KLizotte]

@mstone 90737 wrote:

I’m pondering what, exactly, you need to do to a disc frame to make it fit 650b as an option to 700c. This sounds more like a brilliant marketing move than anything, and maybe just a wheel option if you buy a complete bike.

They are one of the only manufacturers to offer a top tube of 50 cm on a bike that accepts a large range of tires and has fender and rack mounts. I have a 700cc non-disc bike with a top tube of 50 cm but cannot add fenders because of toe overlap/space issues and the frame won’t allow for anything larger than 25mm tires. I want a bike that will allow me to ride gravel, put on studded tires, but still ride comfortably on the road for commuting purposes and getting to/from the gravel bits. I’m hoping that a bike specially designed for 650 wheels will have less geometry compromises than that found on frames that have been shrunk to fit around 700 tires.

The big problem is finding a small enough frame to fit me. The vast majority of manufacturers simply don’t make frames small enough for folks 5’2″ and under. A co-worker is shorter than me and the LBS told her she would have to buy a children’s bike if she wanted to start riding seriously. I had a really hard time finding a standard road bike much less one that will accept fat tires.

[mstone]

@KLizotte 90746 wrote:

They are one of the only manufacturers to offer a top tube of 50 cm on a bike that accepts a large range of tires and has fender and rack mounts. I have a 700cc non-disc bike with a top tube of 50 cm but cannot add fenders because of toe overlap/space issues and the frame won’t allow for anything larger than 25mm tires. I want a bike that will allow me to ride gravel, put on studded tires, but still ride comfortably on the road for commuting purposes and getting to/from the gravel bits. I’m hoping that a bike specially designed for 650 wheels will have less geometry compromises than that found on frames that have been shrunk to fit around 700 tires.

The big problem is finding a small enough frame to fit me. The vast majority of manufacturers simply don’t make frames small enough for folks 5’2″ and under. A co-worker is shorter than me and the LBS told her she would have to buy a children’s bike if she wanted to start riding seriously. I had a really hard time finding a standard road bike much less one that will accept fat tires.

Yeah, I get all that–what confuses me is when they say it can still fit 700c tires (which implies that they kinda still need to have made the trade-offs to fit 700c tires). Maybe it’s a typo as suggested above. FWIW, it may be even harder to find a good children’s bike than a small adult bike. Maybe look at http://www.islabikes.com/us/bike_pages/luath26.html or http://www.islabikes.com/us/bike_pages/luath700.html as I’ve been really happy with our islabike, but it’s definitely designed for kids rather than adults (tradeoffs like limiting the number of gears to make shifting less complicated for kids) which may be undesirable for an adult looking to cycle really seriously. In general, though, kids bikes are terrible. (Heavy, bad components, expected to be tossed within 2 years and treated badly before then.) There are at least a few non-kid-specific bikes available with small frames. http://redlinebicycles.com/bikes/2014-conquest/ is available down to 44cm (they also do a kids’ bike in 24in and I think they basically merged their larger kids into their main line). Then there’s the boutique places (e.g., http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-soma.htm might be perfect for what you’re describing, at 47cm with 650b tires). It definitely gets harder (and more expensive) the further you go from the “average customer”.

[DismalScientist]

Look at a Terry Symmetry. (The internet suggests that it may only accommodate tires up to 28mm.) Georgina Terry also does higher end custom bikes.

[KLizotte]

@mstone 90756 wrote:

Yeah, I get all that–what confuses me is when they say it can still fit 700c tires (which implies that they kinda still need to have made the trade-offs to fit 700c tires). Maybe it’s a typo as suggested above. FWIW, it may be even harder to find a good children’s bike than a small adult bike. Maybe look at http://www.islabikes.com/us/bike_pages/luath26.html or http://www.islabikes.com/us/bike_pages/luath700.html as I’ve been really happy with our islabike, but it’s definitely designed for kids rather than adults (tradeoffs like limiting the number of gears to make shifting less complicated for kids) which may be undesirable for an adult looking to cycle really seriously. In general, though, kids bikes are terrible. (Heavy, bad components, expected to be tossed within 2 years and treated badly before then.) There are at least a few non-kid-specific bikes available with small frames. http://redlinebicycles.com/bikes/2014-conquest/ is available down to 44cm (they also do a kids’ bike in 24in and I think they basically merged their larger kids into their main line). Then there’s the boutique places (e.g., http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-soma.htm might be perfect for what you’re describing, at 47cm with 650b tires). It definitely gets harder (and more expensive) the further you go from the “average customer”.

Sigh. The Soma would be perfect were it another size smaller. I checked my PBH and SH measurements as well as the geometry chart and the 47 is a little too big. Darn, I love its versatility and classic looks.

The Redline is too big as well. It sucks to be short. 😡

I would love to get a Seven bike (custom made titanium) but wowsy, are they expensive.

[KLizotte]

@DismalScientist 90757 wrote:

Look at a Terry Symmetry. (The internet suggests that it may only accommodate tires up to 28mm.) Georgina Terry also does higher end custom bikes.

The custom built bikes are quite interesting; most surprising is the fact that she offers a money back guarantee if you don’t like the bike! I would need to learn more about bike builds and talk to Georgina to see how flexible she is about only offering a frame and/or changing out some of the components. My head is beginning to hurt….

[mstone]

@KLizotte 90778 wrote:

I would love to get a Seven bike (custom made titanium) but wowsy, are they expensive.

Yeah, at some point custom is the way to go, but it is expensive.

[drevil]

@mstone 90780 wrote:

Yeah, at some point custom is the way to go, but it is expensive.

Agreed, but if you’ve been riding a while and plan to keep it up, have a hard time finding what you want in stock frames, have a good idea of what you are looking for, and go with a good framebuilder, welp, it’s worth every penny

[Phatboing]

@KLizotte 90778 wrote:

Sigh. The Soma would be perfect were it another size smaller. I checked my PBH and SH measurements as well as the geometry chart and the 47 is a little too big. Darn, I love its versatility and classic looks.

The Redline is too big as well. It sucks to be short. 😡

I would love to get a Seven bike (custom made titanium) but wowsy, are they expensive.

The Soma Saga is rather nice (26-in wheels in your size, yes, but nice).

For custom made titanium, I briefly looked at Habanero cycles – they have custom geometry for 1600-ish, which isn’t cheap, but isn’t Seven expensive, either.

[hozn]

@Phatboing 90794 wrote:

For custom made titanium, I briefly looked at Habanero cycles – they have custom geometry for 1600-ish, which isn’t cheap, but isn’t Seven expensive, either.

Yeah, I am very happy with my habanero cx frame. I plan to eventually get a custom road (disc-brake, of course) frame from Habanero. They are a great outfit — fantastic customer service.

[cyclingfool]

Bruce Gordon makes his Rock n’ Road touring bike in sizes down to 38 cm. I have no idea what the geometry ends up looking like on the smaller frame sizes since they claim to use 700c wheels seemingly on all frame sizes, but I like to think a respected frame builder like him would not do anything too ridiculous to make the bigger wheels fit. Lots of mounting points for racks and panniers since it’s a touring bike. $1800 + freight for a frame/fork only.

[Author]

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