Stopped from riding in Lincoln Memorial Cemetery

[dasgeh]

@Steve O 107958 wrote:

The “down but not up” restriction, as I understand it, is because people riding bicycles have been ID’d at Ft. Myer before entering at the top.

This is one of their claims but it doesn’t hold water. Everyone is id’d before entering the base, and there’s a guard shack at the top of the hill that checks ids for pedestrians and drivers (i believe only military can drive from ANC to the base, because other cars have to be searched and there really aren’t search facilities at that gate). There’s no reason they couldn’t check ids for bikes like they do for peds – in fact, the one time I got a flat at the top of the hill and walked my bike back, they checked my id and let me on the base no problem.

[scoot]

@Steve O 107958 wrote:

The “down but not up” restriction, as I understand it, is because people riding bicycles have been ID’d at Ft. Myer before entering at the top. If you ride up the cemetery, then you can enter the Fort without being ID’d, which I guess is a no-no.

This was my initial understanding. But every time I have gone this route (downhill only of course), the gate to enter Fort Myer from the cemetery has always been manned, and twice I have seen a guard stop automobiles approaching from the cemetery. I did not hang around to see if the vehicles were turned away or if they were admitted after ID’ing. I also don’t know if they were on official business. So Fort Myer could certainly ID anyone riding up through that gate, just as they do at every other entrance.

So perhaps it is the cemetery that simply does not wish to allow their grounds to be soiled by the sweat of uphill riders. I can only assume that they reached this decision after a democratic poll of the residents.

[scoot]

@Raymo853 107901 wrote:

These ones are privately owned so there is validity to the their attitude. Of course I bet these cemeteries, like churches, mosques, temples, not really open museums, non-effective charities, …. hide behind tax exempt status stealing revenue from the municipalities they demand services from.

Wow, that second sentence is a mine field.

Yeah it’s a mine field, because it’s unpopular but so true.

I can purchase a two-acre plot of property and pay real estate taxes on it just like every other private citizen. Or I can invite a few friends over on Sundays, put up a few crosses and a steeple, and keep the cash myself. There’s no justifiable reason for religious organizations (and the vast majority of other tax-exempt orgs and charities too) to enjoy preferential treatment. Separation of church and state?

[hozn]

@scoot 107968 wrote:

Yeah it’s a mine field, because it’s unpopular but so true.

You might want to ask yourself, if the opinion that religious organizations should not have tax exemption status is so unpopular, maybe that has a little something to do with why they do [have tax exemption status]. While I may agree with you, I find it somewhat comforting that the opinions of the masses should have some impact on our policies.

But really, this point has little to do with cycling. I do think it’s funny that people are getting all bent out of shape because they can’t chase KOMs in some cemetery.

[Raymo853]

Wow this thread has migrated.

@hozn 107969 wrote:

I do think it’s funny that people are getting all bent out of shape because they can’t chase KOMs in some cemetery.

This made me smile and laugh so much I wanted to hug you.

@hozn 107969 wrote:

You might want to ask yourself, if the opinion that religious organizations should not have tax exemption status is so unpopular, maybe that has a little something to do with why they do [have tax exemption status]. While I may agree with you, I find it somewhat comforting that the opinions of the masses should have some impact on our policies.

I support removal just about all tax-exempt status for organizations be they religious groups, charities, universities, federal owned lands, think-tanks, state owned lands, the Red Cross, the Smithsonian, the World Bank, Greenpeace, the NRA, Komen for the Cure, IMBA, … I of course can cite outrageous examples (Penn State’s ex-chair being paid 10’s of millions, Reverends in DC driving Bentleys, the head of the Smithsonian using millions to have work done on his house, …) but it is beyond that. This organizations still have an impact on the communities they are in, example a large church increasing car traffic, without contributing to the local govs as a typical business of individual. And please focus on that bolded typical, I know there are many examples of payment programs however know most of them fail to really offset the costs.

[DismalScientist]

I’m fine with the removing the property tax exemption of non-profits as long as they end the property tax exemption for freeloading seniors and the differential property tax treatment of business and individual owners.

[Greenbelt]

@Raymo853 107923 wrote:

I will start attending, can you message me the actual dates? 2nd Tuesday will not be enough for me to figure out when to attend. I’ll also try to get some others from the Census, NOAA, etc to come along.

Tonight! Also, the notices are generally posted on waba.org home page. There’s a also a Google group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/waba-action-pgco

[creadinger]

@hozn 107969 wrote:

I do think it’s funny that people are getting all bent out of shape because they can’t chase KOMs in some cemetery.

It’s not about riding in a cemetery exactly. Certainly not about “chasing KOMs”. It’s more about escaping the city for a few minutes to ride on nice, quiet, car-free roads. Cemeteries are basically parks, and I think it’s a real shame that we designate some of the nicest urban parkland for the dead, and exclude the living. Especially ones that don’t serve some ‘higher’ purpose like Arlington, which is more like a massive military memorial. And since many of the parks in this area are situated right next to highways, they’re not exactly quiet. MVT being one big example.

But anyway, I’ve only ridden in it twice, and ridden past it dozens of times, so I guess it’s no big loss. I know the local Navy folks used to run through it for their PT, but I assume they’ve been booted out too.

[Greenbelt]

@creadinger 107982 wrote:

It’s not about riding in a cemetery exactly. Certainly not about “chasing KOMs”. It’s more about escaping the city for a few minutes to ride on nice, quiet, car-free roads. Cemeteries are basically parks, and I think it’s a real shame that we designate some of the nicest urban parkland for the dead, and exclude the living. Especially ones that don’t serve some ‘higher’ purpose like Arlington, which is more like a massive military memorial. And since many of the parks in this area are situated right next to highways, they’re not exactly quiet. MVT being one big example.

But anyway, I’ve only ridden in it twice, and ridden past it dozens of times, so I guess it’s no big loss. I know the local Navy folks used to run through it for their PT, but I assume they’ve been booted out too.

This. They are called memorial parks, after all. And I think the tax exemption (or not) should come into play. If it’s privately owned and taxed property, then fine, make whatever rules you want. But if it’s not taxed property, then the public should at least have a seat at the table regarding access. Sort of like forest lands. If the tree company actually owns the land and pays taxes, then fine do whatever. But if it’s public land leased from the forest service or BLM, then hikers and mountain bikers, horsie people etc. should have a seat at the table regarding access. Not guaranteed access maybe, depending on the context — you wouldn’t want a moto-cross course at a memorial park — but at least the courtesy of being allowed to propose accommodations.

[Kolohe]

First of all, “uppity’? Really?

Second of all, how many municipal services does a cemetery need? None of the residents are going to school or using Obamacare. They don’t get on the bus to go to work. The roads in the cemetery are privately maintained. So the ‘they’re not paying taxes’ is rather ridiculous argument. (and to pre-buttal the ‘what about police escort & traffic control for the funerals’ – funerals are for the living, not the dead, and the families sure as heck paid taxes throughout their lifetimes.)

How hard is it to leave private property, with signed access restrictions, alone?

[creadinger]

@Kolohe 107991 wrote:

First of all, “uppity’? Really?

1. affecting an attitude of inflated self-esteem; haughty; snobbish.

Yup!

[creadinger]

@Raymo853 107886 wrote:

Planning to talk to the Hills of Anacostia organizers about this.

Have you heard from the folks at Bicycle Space yet? I don’t think I want to attend another ride if there’s a chance I’ll get a trespassing citation. Instead, to bag another hill they could just go up Suitland Rd. and back down without changing too much of the current route.

[dplasters]

Just from a curiosity stand point – if you believe that charities and religious groups should be taxed, I would like to know your thoughts on the mortgage interest deduction.

Yeah, I stopped being a scofflaw and cycling through the Vienna Metro Pedestrian bridge. Sometimes you get called out … by metro police… sometimes by ministers. Sometimes in life we’re wrong.

[83b]

I’d be much more willing to side with the “No Trespassing” crowd if drivers weren’t allowed to park illegally en masse all over our neighborhoods every Sunday. Including in bike lanes and, outrageously, blocking crosswalks and curb cuts in front of my wheelchair-bound neighbor’s house. For now, put me on Team No One.

Also, a tax policy argument! Now my favorite procrastination website reads just like my work emails! With respect to the property tax exemption issue, the very second DC’s voter base flips I’m going to float my proposal to (a) eliminate the property tax exemption for churches and (b) grant an offsetting tax deduction/credit from your DC taxes for contributions to a qualified DC religious organization. Then DC’s citizens can stop subsidizing churches patronized principally by nonresidents, which near me are pretty terrible neighbors.

[scoot]

@dplasters 108007 wrote:

Just from a curiosity stand point – if you believe that charities and religious groups should be taxed, I would like to know your thoughts on the mortgage interest deduction.

Too easy: get rid of it. Yesterday.

This is perhaps the worst of all special-interest preferential tax treatments. Remind me why our society should be encouraging irresponsible debt, inflating real estate bubbles, etc.?

[Author]

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