Specialized’s 530 watt Levo

[Harry Meatmotor]

I dunno – $3k asking price for the least expensive (Specialized Turbo, non-offroad, natch) model is a fairly large barrier to entry. Further, most of the MTB models are $5k+, and the only folks I know that regularly drop that kind of coin on MTBs are the DH/AM crew. And they’re all stuck riding at ski resorts anyhow.

Also, one of the tricks to marketing these offroad capable e-bikes is to remind the users that there are FAR more offroad fire access/jeep trails where motorized vehicles are WELCOME, than twisty singletrack where an extra 500 watts ain’t gonna net you much except for getting wrapped around a tree. Motorized vehicles are prohibited from the vast majority of National and State/Local park hiking/biking/horse trails.

I, for one, would think that ripping around on the jeep trails at Moab would be way more fun than trying to thread the needle on single track with a 50-pound 29+ squish bike with 500+ extra watts at my disposal.

From what I’ve read, sales are doing quite well in Europe, and the trail access policy question is being handled quite well. Treat e-MTBs similarly to motorcycles and most folks stay happy and safe.

[jabberwocky]

@Harry Meatmotor 143113 wrote:

I dunno – $3k asking price for the least expensive (Specialized Turbo, non-offroad, natch) model is a fairly large barrier to entry. Further, most of the MTB models are $5k+, and the only folks I know that regularly drop that kind of coin on MTBs are the DH/AM crew. And they’re all stuck riding at ski resorts anyhow.

Most mid-range trail bikes are in the 3k and up range these days. I’m not sure that price is a huge barrier to entry in the high-end MTB market.

@Harry Meatmotor 143113 wrote:

Also, one of the tricks to marketing these offroad capable e-bikes is to remind the users that there are FAR more offroad fire access/jeep trails where motorized vehicles are WELCOME, than twisty singletrack where an extra 500 watts ain’t gonna net you much except for getting wrapped around a tree. Motorized vehicles are prohibited from the vast majority of National and State/Local park hiking/biking/horse trails.

I, for one, would think that ripping around on the jeep trails at Moab would be way more fun than trying to thread the needle on single track with a 50-pound 29+ squish bike with 500+ extra watts at my disposal.

I think they will appeal strongly to the people who want to rip up downhill actually; not that the power is very useful there, but it can sure be used to get back uphill just as fast as downhill.

I agree they should be treated as slow motorcycles rather than fast bicycles. I’ve been and out of MTB advocacy for a while now and the big problem is that MTB groups have spent literally decades convincing land managers not to group us with dirtbikes and ATVs and such. People riding motorized mountain bikes will seriously threaten a lot of access.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@jabberwocky 143115 wrote:

Most mid-range trail bikes are in the 3k and up range these days. I’m not sure that price is a huge barrier to entry in the high-end MTB market.

I think they will appeal strongly to the people who want to rip up downhill actually; not that the power is very useful there, but it can sure be used to get back uphill just as fast as downhill.

I agree they should be treated as slow motorcycles rather than fast bicycles. I’ve been and out of MTB advocacy for a while now and the big problem is that MTB groups have spent literally decades convincing land managers not to group us with dirtbikes and ATVs and such. People riding motorized mountain bikes will seriously threaten a lot of access.

I think (generally) it shakes out to a $2k+ “upgrade” in pricing structures to go from high-end analog bike to high-end e-MTB. So, for the folks rolling around on a $3k analog bike, they’re going to nearly double the cost of their next bike to go e-MTB. I also think there’s enough vehement and vocal opposition to e-MTBs on analog trails (where they are explicitly illegal in most state/local and all national parks) that the trail users will self police. And you’re spot on, too; these bikes are for getting to the top of the fireroad faster. An extra 500 watts is practically useless coming down the mountain.

[Raymo853]

As someone primarily focused on MTB riding trending towards Trail riding, I do not see these as being used to go up fire roads. That shows a lack of understand how Trail riders ride. Fire roads are no problem for most riders of my type. The boost would be most useful for those killer short technical grades, like a 100 meter long 12% rocky section. Those are what kill me, peg out my heart rate, and usually stops me when I just run out of power. I can ride up steep fireroads basically for ever.

Now poorly trained down hillers might use this as a shuttle replacement, but I doubt it. Most would rather use a F350 or Tacoma. Trained downhills would not, as a rule those folks are hyper trained, able to climb like Froome. And downhillers are very much weight weenies and won’t use bosters for a long time.

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[Raymo853]

By the way, I might be so critical, or ebikeophobic, because I fear I’ll go down this dark path some day. In 10 years when I am 55 and ebikes are nearly as light as my trail bike today (33 pounds) the temptation may be too great.

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[mstone]

@Harry Meatmotor 143113 wrote:

From what I’ve read, sales are doing quite well in Europe, and the trail access policy question is being handled quite well. Treat e-MTBs similarly to motorcycles and most folks stay happy and safe.

The politics and legalities of land use are so different in .eu vs .us that’s almost irrelevant. If the answer is to treat them like motorcycles, that’ll close off a whole lot of access that people want. I have no idea what the right answer is, beyond better mode segregation that the will to pay for does not exist here.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@mstone 143127 wrote:

The politics and legalities of land use are so different in .eu vs .us that’s almost irrelevant. If the answer is to treat them like motorcycles, that’ll close off a whole lot of access that people want. I have no idea what the right answer is, beyond better mode segregation that the will to pay for does not exist here.

Has anyone who posts here seen an e-MTB at Wakefield or Fountianhead?

I also don’t understand where any greater costs are coming from if e-MTBs are (already) disallowed from analog MTB trails. Most forest service roads/fire roads/OHV areas are maintained by the states’ respective DOTs or BLMs.

IMHO, the right answer is already the law in most places. No motorized vehicles on hiker/biker/equ trails. Private/pay-to-play can obviously do whatever they want. I’d love to see what differences in trail cutting and feature design would come into play if the trail is intended to only or mostly be ridden by e-MTBs.

Here’s a fairly even-keeled take on the whole mess.

The comments are worth reading.

Again, I’ve heard from a fair amount of folks willing to self police to protect trail systems we’ve spent 2 decades trying to open and maintain.

I’m also interested to hear from riders who, after having spent a season thrashing an e-MTB have to say once they move back to a simple HT 29er XC rig.

[hozn]

I have never seen an e-MTB around here, though I am not a very prolific MTBer anymore.

Given the recreational nature of mountain biking, it seems pretty reasonable to treat an e-mtb like a motorcycle. I really don’t see the point, but I haven’t really given this a lot of thought … since I haven’t seen any around here.

[jnva]

I’d feel kind of strange riding my ebike at Wakefield or fountainhead, mainly because I grew up riding those trails on a no suspension trek7000 (which I still ride). It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[Vicegrip]

E power bikes have no place in the woods.

I grew up riding around wakefield on a Schwinn stingray with knobbies before there were trails. Kids, potheads and the random cop was all there was back then.

[Raymo853]

@Vicegrip 143210 wrote:

E power bikes have no place in the woods.

I grew up riding around wakefield on a Schwinn stingray with knobbies before there were trails. Kids, potheads and the random cop was all there was back then.

E bikes do belong in the woods, on the same trails open to gas powered motercycles and ATVs. So not Fountainhead nor Wakefield, but yes to the systems near Edinboro Gap.

There is a segment already just for them: https://www.strava.com/segments/12227300

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[jnva]

@Vicegrip 143210 wrote:

E power bikes have no place in the woods.

I grew up riding around wakefield on a Schwinn stingray with knobbies before there were trails. Kids, potheads and the random cop was all there was back then.

There were trails at Wakefield – and ironically they were dirt bike trails LOL.

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