Some more misc post ride thoughts and questions

[mstone]

@lordofthemark 82322 wrote:

8. I went home via Orange line metro center to Dunn loring, and biked home from DL. I carried my bike down the stairs from mezzanine to platform at Metro Center, to avoid waiting behind all the families with strollers at the elevator. Is that legal? Do others do that?

If a station manager sees you he’ll go apoplectic, unless he’s too apathetic to care.

[PotomacCyclist]

I would limit sidewalk riding downtown, but I wouldn’t worry too much about brief detours on sidewalks. The area is not marked at all, so there’s no way to tell the boundaries unless you have memorized the area. (I haven’t.)

Some CaBi stations are on the sidewalks, so obviously some people will have to ride on the sidewalk just to get to the bike station. I’ve seen police officers riding bikes on sidewalks in casual situations (not while chasing a suspect or other emergency situation).

I’ve never heard of anyone getting cited for riding on the sidewalk.

If you do ride on the sidewalk, respect the fact that pedestrians should have the right of way. Ride slowly, so that if you were a pedestrian, you would feel comfortable (or as comfortable as possible) if someone rode past you at a similar speed. On crowded sidewalks, this means slowing to near-walking speed. Or just step off the bike and walk the bike until you find a rideable road again. Even if the sidewalk is empty, someone can always step out of a building or around a corner, so I would never ride at high speed on any sidewalk, downtown or elsewhere.

[cvcalhoun]

@lordofthemark 82322 wrote:

7. DC law on no biking on sidewalks downtown. Boundary is Mass ave. Is it the center line on Mass Ave? IE is it legal to bike on the sidewalk on the north side of Mass Ave?

Good question!

DC Statutes state as follows:

A personal mobility device shall not be operated… Upon a sidewalk within the Central Business District, as defined by section 9901 of Title 18 of the District of Columbia Municipal Regulations (18 DCMR 9901);

The applicable regulations under this section state as follows:

There shall be no prohibition against any person riding a bicycle or personal mobility device upon a sidewalk within the District, so long as the rider does not create a hazard; provided, that no person shall ride a bicycle or operate a personal mobility device upon a sidewalk within the Central Business District except on those sidewalks expressly designated by Order of the Mayor, nor shall any person ride a bicycle upon a sidewalk in any area outside of the Central Business District if it is expressly prohibited by Order of the Mayor and appropriate signs to such effect are posted.

The definition of “Central Business District” is as follows:

Central Business District – that area within the following boundaries (including sidewalks): Beginning at 23rd Street and Massachusetts Avenue, Northwest, then east along Massachusetts Avenue to Second Street, Northeast, then south on Second Street to D Street, Southeast, then west on D Street in a line crossing Virginia Avenue, Southwest to 14th Street, Southwest, then north on 14th Street, Southwest to Constitution Avenue, Northwest, then west on Constitution Avenue to 23rd Street, Northwest, then north on 23rd Street, Northwest to Massachusetts Avenue, Northwest. (Reg. No. 71-26)

My interpretation would be that the sidewalk on the north side of Massachusetts Avenue is not “within” the area bounded by the relevant streets, and thus that if you are on the sidewalk north of Massachusetts Avenue, you are outside of the Central Business District and are okay to bike on the sidewalk. However, the language is ambiguous, because it is not clear whether “(including sidewalks)” means only that sidewalks within those streets are off-limits, or that the sidewalk along the street is considered part of the street (and therefore that the prohibited area includes both sidewalks along Massachusetts Avenue between 23rd NW and 2d NE).

FWIW, the WABA map seems to show the north sidewalk of Massachusetts Avenue as being outside of the prohibited area. And like PotomacCyclist, I’ve never seen anyone cited for riding on the sidewalk in any event. Just use common sense, and don’t do it when the sidewalk is narrow/crowded.

[ShawnoftheDread]

The south side walkway on the TR Bridge does not connect to anything on the Virginia side.

To get to the L St cycle track without going through GWU, bootleg to the left after you cross Virginia Ave coming off the bridge and take 25th St.

[lordofthemark]

@PotomacCyclist 82324 wrote:

I

If you do ride on the sidewalk, respect the fact that pedestrians should have the right of way. Ride slowly, so that if you were a pedestrian, you would feel comfortable (or as comfortable as possible) if someone rode past you at a similar speed. On crowded sidewalks, this means slowing to near-walking speed. Or just step off the bike and walk the bike until you find a rideable road again. Even if the sidewalk is empty, someone can always step out of a building or around a corner, so I would never ride at high speed on any sidewalk, downtown or elsewhere.

Of course. There were spots at GWU where the streets looked unpleasant, and there were lots of peds, so I walked the bike.

The Mass avenue thing came up at the end of the L Street track, to get from 12th to the 11th street bike lanes. The streets looked nasty, and there were few peds on the N side of Mass Ave on that stretch from 12th to 11th, and I went slowly.

[lordofthemark]

One more thing. At GWU, I was walking the bike, and waiting for a red. The other pedestrians (the ones without bikes) jaywalked, once it was clear there was no cross traffic. Do those folks who think cyclists should avoid running reds for the sake of “optics” feel that applies when one is walking a bike? On the one hand I felt silly waiting for the light while everyone else was crossing, on the other hand I felt like jaywalking with a bike was like jaywalking while wearing a yarmulke – bad for my group. With the difference that its not easy to stuff my bike in my pocket.

[cvcalhoun]

My sense is that people who get apoplectic about bicycles running red lights, while not feeling the same about pedestrians, think that it’s a question of consistency–if you’re acting like a motor vehicle (by riding), you are subject to the same censure as a motor vehicle would get if it ran a red light. Thus, it wouldn’t apply if you were walking your bike, using a crosswalk.

YMMV, of course. There really isn’t a reason that a bicycle running a red light is any more harmful than a pedestrian running a red light, so any attempts to apply logic to the situation are doomed to failure.

@lordofthemark 82331 wrote:

One more thing. At GWU, I was walking the bike, and waiting for a red. The other pedestrians (the ones without bikes) jaywalked, once it was clear there was no cross traffic. Do those folks who think cyclists should avoid running reds for the sake of “optics” feel that applies when one is walking a bike? On the one hand I felt silly waiting for the light while everyone else was crossing, on the other hand I felt like jaywalking with a bike was like jaywalking while wearing a yarmulke – bad for my group. With the difference that its not easy to stuff my bike in my pocket.

[PotomacCyclist]

Unfortunately every group breaks multiple traffic laws on a regular basis. This includes car drivers, cyclists, roller bladers and pedestrians. By far the most dangerous group in my experience is car drivers (speeding, running red lights, texting while driving). But many pedestrians jaywalk, often stepping into the road just in front of cars and bikes, expecting the drivers and cyclists to stop suddenly to avoid them. Sometimes the pedestrians are texting or web browsing on their phones. Other times, they are looking up, directly at the driver or cyclist and still expect the other person to stop suddenly.

At the same time, I’ve seen (or experienced) many near misses as pedestrians walk in a marked crosswalk with a WALK sign and still nearly get run over or hit by a car driver. On Friday, one driver was racing down a street in downtown DC, trying to beat the yellow light. He hadn’t made it to the intersection when the light turned to red, but he refused to slow down. Pedestrians began walking across the crosswalk after the light changed to red. The driver sped through, honking his horn to get the pedestrians out of the way. He nearly hit two or three people, ran through the red light, but almost immediately had to slow down when he came up to other cars in the next block. So he almost ran over 3 people just to make it to the next red light a few seconds sooner.

I think the worst situations are when someone creates a serious safety hazard for others. (This can include a pedestrian or cyclist who causes others to swerve suddenly to avoid an accident, along with the more usual situations of a car driver driving aggressively and illegally.) For other situations, I tend not to get too worked up, especially in off-peak hours. During peak hours, I think it’s better to be more vigilant about safety because there are more people on the roads, and more chances for someone to cause a problem.

[mstone]

The last thing I did for optics was get new glasses.

The jerk who made the right turn on red without stopping while I had a walk signal this afternoon didn’t care about optics, nor did anyone else in a car.

[Dickie]

@ShawnoftheDread 82328 wrote:

To get to the L St cycle track without going through GWU, bootleg to the left after you cross Virginia Ave coming off the bridge and take 25th St.

Carolyn and I tried this over the weekend to test out the commute to her new office space near Dupont Circle. We got in a real mess… how do you cross K Street on 25th? Walk it in the crosswalk? We also realized how little we ride in DC… The L street cycletrack confused us at a few intersections and this was on a quite day. I think she will need some better help from a more experienced DC commuter. Oh.. sorry to highjack your thread lordofthemark!

[consularrider]

“3. EB Wilson blvd to NB Lynn. Hmmm. What do all those diamond shapes in the road mean?”

I believe those are where vehicles are supposed to stop to yield to crosswalk users.

[dasgeh]

@lordofthemark 82330 wrote:

Of course. There were spots at GWU where the streets looked unpleasant, and there were lots of peds, so I walked the bike.

What do you mean by unpleasant? I ride through GWU all the time (my main office is on the Mall there, so the best food option = biking up to GWU, and currently my commute takes me through there), and there are some holes in the streets and LOTS of jaywalking peds, but I find the cars to be fine through there, certainly no worse than the trying to walk the bike with all of the peds. When it’s really bad, Virginia Ave is usually fine (though they’ve been doing some crazy roadwork there and tearing up the road surface, but I’ve always seen one lane be passable, and not very much traffic), and 20th or 18th is fine for heading north.

[dasgeh]

@cvcalhoun 82327 wrote:

Good question!

DC Statutes state as follows:

The applicable regulations under this section state as follows:

The definition of “Central Business District” is as follows:

My interpretation would be that the sidewalk on the north side of Massachusetts Avenue is not “within” the area bounded by the relevant streets, and thus that if you are on the sidewalk north of Massachusetts Avenue, you are outside of the Central Business District and are okay to bike on the sidewalk. However, the language is ambiguous, because it is not clear whether “(including sidewalks)” means only that sidewalks within those streets are off-limits, or that the sidewalk along the street is considered part of the street (and therefore that the prohibited area includes both sidewalks along Massachusetts Avenue between 23rd NW and 2d NE).

FWIW, the WABA map seems to show the north sidewalk of Massachusetts Avenue as being outside of the prohibited area. And like PotomacCyclist, I’ve never seen anyone cited for riding on the sidewalk in any event. Just use common sense, and don’t do it when the sidewalk is narrow/crowded.

Thanks for the sites. I’ve always understood those roads and their sidewalks on both sides to be the boundaries, and if you’re on a boundary, you’re not within a boundary (soccer/basketball rules). Besides, the other reading would mean that you’re required to bike on some of the least bike-friendly roads in that immediate area (Constitution, Mass Ave). Given that I’ve ridden often on sidewalks along Constitution, and officers of many stripes have said nothing, it seems like others read it that way as well. Or don’t think about it.

[elbows]

@lordofthemark 82322 wrote:

1. Rode Bluemont Junction Trail for the first time. Nice. I am curious if NVRPA has ever considered a sign for it from the W&OD though.

I agree and have wondered the same thing.

[consularrider]

@dasgeh 82377 wrote:

… if you’re on a boundary, you’re not within a boundary (soccer/basketball rules) …

Actually, in soccer the line is within the boundry (the ball has to go all the way across the line to be out of bounds or to score a goal), at least when I used to play and referee. It’s American football, like basketball, where the line is not within the boundry.

[Author]

Posts