Sharrows too far to the right?

[lordofthemark]

So yesterday I was heading home from a short recreational ride, was headed up Walter Reed on the MUT from the W&OD to King Street. There was another cyclist riding at about the same speed as I was in the right general travel lane. She was following the sharrows very rigidly – the sharrows is painted on the right, adjacent to the curb, and that is where she rode (till the steep part of the hill, where she ditched the lane and came over to the sidewalk. )

I noted that several vehicles passed her in lane – too closely, or so it appeared from where I was.

I am still trying to learn, and am slowly getting comfortable with being more “vehicular” but it seems to me that it would be safer in that instance to fully take the lane by riding in the center of the lane – Walter Reed is two lanes in each direction so cars can pass in the left hand lane. If you are not going to take the full lane, it seems like the MUT is better than riding on the far right (not too many peds and the interersections are very tame) I appreciate that ArlCo and Alexandria are both aggressive about painting sharrows, but I wonder if they are painting them in the right part of the road, and I wonder if a “Bike may take full lane” sign wouldn’t be better – the benefit of a sharrows over that is that it tells you where to ride (and tells drivers where to expect you) but I am not sure that is really the right place to ride.

Am I misunderstanding something?

Topic

[mstone]

I’m not familiar with that stretch, but in general: yes, you’re supposed to ride over the sharrow, and yes, the DOTs often put them in the wrong place. They do sometimes get them right and seem to be getting better (e.g., the relatively new sharrows on Courthouse Road which are way out toward the middle).

[DismalScientist]

From Streetview, the sharrows appear to where a (fairly substandard) bike lane would be. If that is where they want cyclist to ride, they should mark it as a bike lane and take width out of both regular lanes.

When riding on streets like this, I would ignore where the sharrows are and would ride at least 2 to 3 feet from the transition between the asphalt and concrete. The faster I ride, the farther to the left I would go.

I don’t know what traffic is like here, but it appears that this and George Mason between Wilson and at least Four Mile Run are viewed as important north-south connections for the bike network, so the county seems to have slapped sharrows down to be “bike friendly” although only experienced cyclists would feel comfortable on these roads. I would think, in general, that bike lanes with narrow regular lanes would be better in these situations, with the exception that sharrows would be more appropriate on downhill segments where speed differentials are less.

[dkel]

I’m always disappointed when street markings switch from well-placed sharrows to a bike lane positioned precisely in the door zone of the parking lane. Happens all the time.

[dasgeh]

BTW, these are all excellent points, and will be very helpful in the update of the Bicycle Element of the Master Transportation Plan. Just keep that in mind.

[bobco85]

On Walter Reed between Arlington Mill and Route 7, I remember there used to be a thin bike lane (note: on this stretch there is no parking on either side) which still continues one block over to Four Mile Run Drive. One day, they took out the bike lane and put bike sharrows in the same spot the bike lane used to be. The problems are that afterwards it was really bumpy due to the paint removal and the sharrows were too far to the right.

When I ride that stretch (a few times per month), I ride closer to the middle of the lane than where the sharrows are located. That said, the lane is still wide enough that drivers will pass you in your lane, but if you see them coming you have room to make way (I tend to be polite when riding).

[lordofthemark]

Just to clarify the MUT is from the 4MRT to rte 7 (actually it changes to a regular sidewalk right near Rte 7). As Bobco says, there is a bike lane from the W&OD to the Arilington Mill, and I rode on that. My personal reason for riding on the MUT is mostly that I don’t feel comfortable goiing as slowly I do up a hill in traffic (and of course usually farther to the left than that – I don’t like being passed in lane unless its a really wide lane) Plus the MUT is nice and shady.

[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 94538 wrote:

BTW, these are all excellent points, and will be very helpful in the update of the Bicycle Element of the Master Transportation Plan. Just keep that in mind.

Note well, City of Alexandria is going to be rebuilding the King/Beauregard intersection and plans to make it more bike and ped friendly, and a large new development is coming to the SW corner. So this may become a more important bike route (at least for Alexandria) than it already is.

[chris_s]

My recollection is that those are some of the first sharrows installed in the region and as staff might say “our thinking has evolved”. AKA – they’re in the wrong spot. The next time that area is repaved the sharrows will almost certainly be moved to the more standard center placement. I may be wrong though, memory is fuzzy on this one.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

I have a family member deep in the bowels of a state department of transportation near Arlington, but not Virginia. We get drunk at Christmas, have knife fights, he complains about letters from jagoff cyclists and I explain how he’s wasted his life as an acolyte to an automotive oligarchy. But in the end he’s a by-the-book sort who can spit out any state reg or FHWA recommendation on command: sharrows are not meant to indicate a precise line for cyclists to follow. Sharrows simply remind travelers that bikes can use the lane, the whole lane or any part of the lane.

Maybe it’s different by state, but in my uncle’s backwater excuse of a state, when cyclists write letters that this sharrow should move over 4″ to the left and the next sharrow should move 9″ to the right so the cyclist’s line staigthens out the curve….well let’s just say those letters get pinned to bulletin boards for amusement.

If he’s wrong about sharrows, find me the reg so I can stab him with it at grandma’s house this December.

[dbb]

Not sure if the sharrows in question are compliant but here is the text from the Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices

http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2009r1r2/pdf_index.htm

Section 9C.07 Shared Lane Marking
Option:
01 The Shared Lane Marking shown in Figure 9C-9 may be used to:
A. Assist bicyclists with lateral positioning in a shared lane with on-street parallel parking in order to reduce
the chance of a bicyclist’s impacting the open door of a parked vehicle,
B. Assist bicyclists with lateral positioning in lanes that are too narrow for a motor vehicle and a bicycle to
travel side by side within the same traffic lane,
C. Alert road users of the lateral location bicyclists are likely to occupy within the traveled way,
D. Encourage safe passing of bicyclists by motorists, and
E. Reduce the incidence of wrong-way bicycling.
Guidance:
02 The Shared Lane Marking should not be placed on roadways that have a speed limit above 35 mph.
Standard:
03 Shared Lane Markings shall not be used on shoulders or in designated bicycle lanes.
Guidance:
04 If used in a shared lane with on-street parallel parking, Shared Lane Markings should be placed so that the
centers of the markings are at least 11 feet from the face of the curb, or from the edge of the pavement where there
is no curb.
05 If used on a street without on-street parking that has an outside travel lane that is less than 14 feet wide, the
centers of the Shared Lane Markings should be at least 4 feet from the face of the curb, or from the edge of the
pavement where there is no curb.
06 If used, the Shared Lane Marking should be placed immediately after an intersection and spaced at intervals
not greater than 250 feet thereafter.
Option:
07 Section 9B.06 describes a Bicycles May Use Full Lane sign that may be used in addition to or instead of the
Shared Lane Marking to inform road users that bicyclists might occupy the travel lane.

[mstone]

@Brendan von Buckingham 94555 wrote:

I have a family member deep in the bowels of a state department of transportation near Arlington, but not Virginia. We get drunk at Christmas, have knife fights, he complains about letters from jagoff cyclists and I explain how he’s wasted his life as an acolyte to an automotive oligarchy. But in the end he’s a by-the-book sort who can spit out any state reg or FHWA recommendation on command: sharrows are not meant to indicate a precise line for cyclists to follow. Sharrows simply remind travelers that bikes can use the lane, the whole lane or any part of the lane.

Maybe it’s different by state, but in my uncle’s backwater excuse of a state, when cyclists write letters that this sharrow should move over 4″ to the left and the next sharrow should move 9″ to the right so the cyclist’s line staigthens out the curve….well let’s just say those letters get pinned to bulletin boards for amusement.

If he’s wrong about sharrows, find me the reg so I can stab him with it at grandma’s how this December.

Introduce him to “let me google that for you”

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=federal+guidance+sharrows

The second entry points to the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, chapter 9. Section 9C.07 Shared Lane Marking:

01 The Shared Lane Marking shown in Figure 9C-9 may be used to:
Assist bicyclists with lateral positioning in a shared lane with on-street parallel parking in order to reduce the chance of a bicyclist’s impacting the open door of a parked vehicle,
Assist bicyclists with lateral positioning in lanes that are too narrow for a motor vehicle and a bicycle to travel side by side within the same traffic lane,
Alert road users of the lateral location bicyclists are likely to occupy within the traveled way,
Encourage safe passing of bicyclists by motorists, and
Reduce the incidence of wrong-way bicycling.

Nobody said it’s a “precise line”, and moving 4″ one way or another is doubtless a complete waste of money. The difference between being in the door zone and taking the lane, or getting squeezed into the ditch on a narrow road, on the other hand (a couple of feet) is pretty significant and exactly the kind of “lateral positioning” the MUTCD encourages.

[DismalScientist]

If only my holiday meals were so exciting…

[dkel]

@Brendan von Buckingham 94555 wrote:

We get drunk at Christmas, have knife fights,

@DismalScientist 94558 wrote:

If only my holiday meals were so exciting…

Your family may not try to stab you…but they want to, trust me.

[JimF22003]

Just because I see sharrows I don’t take it as a sign that I need to ride right over them. They put the sharrows on Oak St. heading to Gallows right in the middle of the road, but I see no reason to ride anywhere other than where I would normally ride. I’ve always taken them as more of an indication/warning to cars than as guidance for cyclists (although I’m sure they’re both.)

[lordofthemark]

@JimF22003 94570 wrote:

Just because I see sharrows I don’t take it as a sign that I need to ride right over them. They put the sharrows on Oak St. heading to Gallows right in the middle of the road, but I see no reason to ride anywhere other than where I would normally ride. I’ve always taken them as more of an indication/warning to cars than as guidance for cyclists (although I’m sure they’re both.)

The rider I saw looked to be about half my age, and was going up the hill the same speed I was, and I am SLOW. Clearly someone who hasn’t biked all that much. The issue is guidance for newbs.

[Author]

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