Runners in the Bike Lanes

[JorgeGortex]

@Tim Kelley 51320 wrote:

Facts aside, many runners would agree that they perceive a difference in the feeling of asphalt vs concrete. Perhaps just a placebo, but I don’t think you are going to change anyone’s mind anytime soon.

As they say, Tim, perception is reality and reality is often only what people want to hear. Oh well…

[PotomacCyclist]

There’s a slight difference between asphalt and concrete. Even if the difference is small between asphalt and concrete, if you multiply that difference over the thousands of steps of a run, that can add up. But yes, it’s far better to run on smooth dirt trails or turf than on either asphalt or concrete.

[runbike]

Had to jump in on this one. As you can see from my username I tend to do just a bit more running than biking.

So yes, I am one of those runners who tends to end up in the street more often than not. I do this mainly for the reason cited earlier; while some may think it’s bunk, any runner will tell you there’s a definite difference in how you feel at the end of a mostly concrete vs mostly asphalt run.

However, when I run in the street I completely recognize that I don’t have the right of way and follow a few simple guidelines so as to hopefully not irritate anyone:

1) Run against traffic. As my college cross-country coach used to say, “It’s a hell of a lot easier to jump out of the way of what you can see coming at you.” I can’t tell you how annoying it is when I see people running or even WALKING with traffic in the street.
2) Run in the parking lane as much as possible (if one exists).
3) When you see an approaching car, get back on the sidewalk so they don’t have to swerve wide around you.
4) If you’re in the bike lane and see a bike coming towards you, get back on the sidewalk so they can have their lane.

I guess my basic philosophy when street running is “Don’t be an inconvenience.”

Also, a big qualifier here is that most of my street running is done on less busy Arlington side streets, although I will do some bike lane/parking lane running on roads as busy as Yorktown, Patrick Henry, Williamsburg, etc. No way would I ever run in the bike lane on Clarendon or Wilson and honestly, I’m as ticked off as anyone when I see people running there, especially when they’re going with traffic. Why would anyone want to run there either? So much pollution from cars and so many people on the sidewalks. Why not just head over a few blocks to the wonderful side streets/trails that parallel the main route?

Anyway, I hope that you’ll understand most serious runners totally get it; we don’t want to inconvenience the legitimate road users. And I know, I know…running in the street is against the law with a sidewalk present. Well so is running a four way stop on my bike even when I can clearly see that no one is at or approaching the intersection; doesn’t mean that I don’t do it from time to time :p

[mstone]

If only there were a way to strap some sort of shock absorber to one’s feet.

[Tim Kelley]

@mstone 51333 wrote:

If only there were a way to strap some sort of shock absorber to one’s feet.

Sounds like a great way to ruin your natural gait…

[mstone]

@Tim Kelley 51334 wrote:

Sounds like a great way to ruin your natural gait…

since the savannah didn’t come with asphalt, that’s a lost battle

[Tim Kelley]

@mstone 51336 wrote:

since the savannah didn’t come with asphalt, that’s a lost battle

You try heel striking for even a short period of time on the softest of dirt trails….

I don’t think you’re going to win this one, and I don’t expect to change your mind either. My take on minimalist shoes (on which I consider myself well versed) is that if it works for you then that’s great. Otherwise if you’re happy in normal shoes go with that. So I’ll leave things at that and we can get back on topic of running in bike lanes.

[mstone]

What’s to win? I’m merely pointing out that there a number of options other than being a putz and running in a congested area where one is not permitted to run, putting other people at risk, and justifying it because of bad shoes.

1) run on a surface appropriate for footwear that does not protect one’s feet (grass/dirt/track)
2) wear shoes designed to protect one’s feet when running on a hard surface
3) run on a marginally less hard surface in an area where doing so does not impact others

I don’t really care about the legitimacy of the various options, just that people don’t act like jerks. (Though I personally think option 3 is stupid and people concerned about their bodies should go with 1 or 2, if it doesn’t impact me it’s merely an academic question.)

[txgoonie]

I’d just like to “like” run/bike’s post 10x over. I’m of a similar mind and act in a very similar way. So thank you.

I understand the folks who say it’s not a big deal, but in this whole big wide metro area, cyclist have a few measly miles of that’s just for us. Is it really too much to ask for others to stay out of them?

[83b]

@txgoonie 51346 wrote:

I understand the folks who say it’s not a big deal, …

The problem, to the extent there is one, is that folks who act reasonably while breaking rules–posing no real danger or inconvenience to others–still help establish community standards of behavior. And the larger community, our anecdotes show, is painfully, breathtakingly stupid.

See e.g.,

• people (including bikes) running lights and stops;
• people (including bikes) making illegal turns;
• jaywalking;
• speeding;
• running in bike lanes;
• biking on sidewalks (where applicable);
• parking illegally; and
• rolling stop signs.

Under the right circumstances, a reasonable person might engage in any of those behaviors. And other reasonable persons might excuse them. But idiots, as usual, ruin things for everyone.

So when you’re running in the bike lane and I give you the stink-eye; when I pass a little more aggressively than is strictly necessary; when I refuse to move from my line; I apologize, it’s not really about you. It’s about that runner yesterday who shoaled me with a double-wide stroller at the light. It’s about the tourist who set up a tripod in the Penn Ave bike lane (which if I ever see again, someone is getting stupid-taxed a DSLR).

[thucydides]

This has turned into a quite thoughtful thread (something I couldn’t really imagine happening at, say, letsrun or slowtwitch). I fully agree with runbike’s comments regarding a runner’s responsibility and 83(b) on how our attitudes in the present are shaped by what we’ve experienced earlier. I had to drive in today and honked at a guy who tried to cut in a bit aggressively. I thought afterwards that I was really mad not at the guy I honked at but at the two earlier drivers who cut me off on the TR bridge.

That said, my reason for running in the road isn’t really about the hard surface issue. For starters, sidewalks come and go. The 3/4 mile walk from my home to the nearest grocery features some blocks with sidewalks on both sides, some blocks with a sidewalk on one side, and some blocks with no sidewalks at all. I once figured out that to stay on a sidewalk I’d have to cross the street 5 times and I’d still have three blocks where I’d have no choice but to walk in the road.

Then there’s the safety issue (aside from crossing the road all the time). Sidewalks are dangerous. Not so much for major trauma, sure, but for strains, sprains, torn soft tissue, and broken bones very much so. Sidewalk surfaces are notoriously uneven as they dip down for driveways, jut up over roots, and crack due to poor materials or maintenance. Then there’s debris — sticks, rocks, toys — and other obstacles like kids. Then there are low hanging limbs and major dangerous obstacles such as telephone poles, guy wires, and fire hydrants in the sidewalk. (Yes, in the sidewalk.) Many of these problems — and the issue of possible assault — are compounded at night as sidewalks are not lit.

Then you have cars bursting out of driveways without looking. (Thankfully this problem is less now that so many kids live in my area and drivers have started to pay attention to sidewalk traffic.)

None of this absolves me from the need to stay the heck out of the way of cars and cyclists (especially cyclists ). Nor does it free me from the possibility of receiving a ticket (which I would pay without complaint).

[DismalScientist]

What? Sidewalks are dangerous for runners for the same reason as for cyclists? I am shocked.:rolleyes: I would also add that drivers aren’t expect “high” speed traffic (i.e. runners) at crosswalks and may not see them for the same reason as they don’t see cyclists.

[consularrider]

I’ve vacillated on this topic over the years. I gave up running 25 years ago so there was little discussion of bike lanes where I lived in Indiana and Atlanta. I think I started with my inner demon saying, “Hey you kids, get off my lawn!”, but have worked my way around to coexistence for the most part. I still question the sanity of someone running uphill in the bike lane against traffic on Clarendon heading from Courthouse to Rhodes St. The cyclist can really be moving down that stretch of road and with the combination parked cars to the right and two lanes of heavy traffic to the left, it’s a disaster waiting to happen.

[runbike]

thucydides totally hit upon one other reason that I forgot to mention!

When you’re running in the street, you gain those valuable few 10ths of a second of extra visibility for cars coming to a stop-signed intersection perpendicular to the direction I’m traveling. We all know that in an ideal world cars would come to a complete stop at the stop sign (or white line before the crosswalk if there is one), look for pedestrians/cyclists potentially coming from either direction, and then move on. But we all know how it really plays out – car usually comes way too fast and comes to a (rolling) stop as far out as possible, usually blocking the crosswalk. We’ve all had the experience where we end up walking behind a car because they didn’t check for pedestrians first and got stuck waiting to proceed through the intersection. When I’m running I often have to stop quickly, or jump sideways due to inattentive drivers failing to stop/look properly and some are pissed because to them, I came out of nowhere. Running in the street makes me visible a few seconds earlier than I would otherwise be and so cars tend (and I stress tend) to not be so aggressive to get through the intersection. Just wanted to add those two cents.

And to 83(b) whose points I fully agree are valid, I’m still going to keep bending the rules but it won’t be me you’re giving the stink eye to, or passing closer than necessary because I work hard to maintain that vigilance and will be sure to not inconvenice you (and others) when I see you coming. For all the other nitwits you see out there, please keep doing what you’re doing because at some point those reminders might just sink in

Really appreciate this thread BTW – this forum has been totally helpful to me as the occasional bike commuter/frequent roadrunner. Thanks to you all I’ve figured out how not to be a ninja during those dark winter months (if you ever passed a runner heading west on the custis trail with reflector vest and headlamp, that’s me) and learned of many new great cycling routes for my weekend excursions. Many thanks.

[dasgeh]

@run/bike 51423 wrote:

When you’re running in the street, you gain those valuable few 10ths of a second of extra visibility for cars coming to a stop-signed intersection perpendicular to the direction I’m traveling.

Of course, when you’re illegally jogging in the street, you’re putting yourself in a position that cars aren’t looking for you. So those of us who actually do follow the rules when driving are startled or worse. For example, imagine a basic intersection – a N-S road, a E-W road, four way stop, all roads have sidewalks on both sides. I’m driving eastbound. Stop at the sign. Look for people coming in the crosswalk. Look for cars and bikes coming on the street – look L-R-L. You are coming from my R in the lane closest to me. Because there are sidewalks, you should not be salmoning on the road, so I’m not looking for you. I may pull out, having no desire to do you any harm, but not looking for you because you are braking the law. I’ve had it happen before.

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