Request for alternative scoring systems

[jrenaut]

Do you have a great idea for a way we could score Freezing Saddles to increase the competitiveness? While nothing you suggest would replace the current scoring system without 600 pages of “discussion”, I’m interested in comparing some alternatives.

I’ve been trying to think of a way to give bonus points for miles when it sucks out – say on the average day, all participants together ride 1000 miles. Today, all participants together only rode 500 miles, so we assume it was a crappy day and give bonus points to those who rode. The only problem with this is that it could really benefit people who were elsewhere. Or maybe VA gets hit with a big snowstorm, but MD only gets a dusting, so MD riders get a bonus for nothing. Not sure there’s a way to do it effectively. Weather data is too unreliable.

Topic

[jrenaut]

@QuikAF77 155023 wrote:

Ahh. I was looking at the adjusted score list. Weird, I fall from 4th to somewhere in the middle based on bump %, yet I ride a pretty good amount pretty much every day.

If you consistently ride every day, you don’t get a big bump from the scoring system. To get a really big bump, you have to have a disproportionately high percentage of your miles come on days when a much lower than average number of people go ride.

[QuikAF77]

@jrenaut 155025 wrote:

If you consistently ride every day, you don’t get a big bump from the scoring system. To get a really big bump, you have to have a disproportionately high percentage of your miles come on days when a much lower than average number of people go ride.

Well that seems like bump % alone is not really a good indicator then. Someone* who rides a ton on days when no one else does would be penalized for also riding on days when other people do.

edit: My complaint about meaningless internet points is completely self-serving. *me

[jrenaut]

The Bump % is just an interesting way to look at riding habits. If we were to adopt this as the official scoring system, the Adjusted Points would be what counted.

If we have another winter like this in 2018, I’m implementing a temperature cap. Miles over 45 degrees simply won’t count.

[dkel]

@jrenaut 155027 wrote:

If we have another winter like this in 2018, I’m implementing a temperature cap. Miles over 45 degrees simply won’t count.

Sometimes I wonder why we can’t just ride bikes. :rolleyes:

[Vicegrip]

A mile is a mile. Perhaps harsh weather might add to the mile but nothing should subtract from it.

[jrenaut]

@Vicegrip 155034 wrote:

A mile is a mile. Perhaps harsh weather might add to the mile but nothing should subtract from it.

In terms of being good for your soul, you are absolutely right. A bike ride is a bike ride is a bike ride. In terms of Freezing Saddles, however, this winter is b**ls**t and nothing counts.

[vvill]

@jrenaut 155021 wrote:

Sort it by bump % – then the riders at the top are the ones who got the biggest bump from Steve O’s system, meaning they rode more on days when everyone else rode less.

I think this brief interpretation is a little misleading if you don’t look too closely at the boost system. It just means the score was boosted more as a proportion of the riders’ original score – which means their riding habits have them doing a higher share of their miles on days where there’s less rides recorded overall. It doesn’t mean others rode less miles on those days. A 27% boost on 700 pts is a lot less extra points than a 24% boost on 2000 pts.

[LhasaCM]

@vvill 155044 wrote:

I think this brief interpretation is a little misleading if you don’t look too closely at the boost system. It just means the score was boosted more as a proportion of the riders’ original score – which means their riding habits have them doing a higher share of their miles on days where there’s less rides recorded overall. It doesn’t mean others rode less miles on those days. A 27% boost on 700 pts is a lot less extra points than a 24% boost on 2000 pts.

Yep. For a middle of the pack case study: looking at the leaderboards, Chris A and I (Chris M) each have 45 days and around 400 miles (he’s at 402, I’m at 400). So in normal scoring, we’re really close to each other. However, because of when I racked up my miles vs. when he did (more of my 400 miles were on days that fewer people rode period), I’m getting a 18.7% boost (as of now), whereas he’s “only” getting a 9.1% boost. That’s why you see such wide disparities in “bonus” points on this scoreboard, even among the folks who have gotten out there every day thus far – it’s not whether you rode when others didn’t, it’s how much (relative to what you normally ride) you rode when others didn’t ride at all. But, because of how aggressive the multiplier is, in reality – it’s the equivalent of me getting all of my points on a day where 193 people logged a ride, and his on a day where it was 196 people.

As I mentioned earlier, this scoreboard also is very sensitive to large swings within the day. When I looked at it earlier (around 4PM), my “boost” was around 25%. It’s dropped more than 6 percentage points in the last few hours, just because more folks have logged their rides and the bonus points I’m getting on my 5 mile commute today has plummeted, which has had a huge effect on the overall math.

If nothing else, it’s an interesting thought exercise and good distraction from other things I should be doing.

[Judd]

@jrenaut 155035 wrote:

In terms of being good for your soul, you are absolutely right. A bike ride is a bike ride is a bike ride. In terms of Freezing Saddles, however, this winter is b**ls**t and nothing counts.

Thank you for protecting my innocent eyes from the word “bull.”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LhasaCM]

@Judd 155054 wrote:

Thank you for protecting my innocent eyes from the word “bull.”

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bullsnot?

[dkel]

@LhasaCM 155056 wrote:

bullsnot?

ballsout

[Vicegrip]

@dkel 155067 wrote:

ballsout

As far as this winters weather is concerned you might get away with this but it is otherwise not recommended.

[cvcalhoun]

@QuikAF77 155023 wrote:

Ahh. I was looking at the adjusted score list. Weird, I fall from 4th to somewhere in the middle based on bump %, yet I ride a pretty good amount pretty much every day.

Not surprising. You “win” on this measure by riding much more on bad days than on good. If you ride pretty much the same amount regardless of the weather, you don’t get as much of a bump.

[Steve O]

I was looking at the data using Steve O’s Crazy idea scoring system.
There will be Pointless Prizes based on a complete black box system of my devising, which I will announce at the final HH.

In the meanwhile, here’s how the team standings changed using the alternative scoring system. Some teams would have moved up a couple of places and vice versa. Given how wimpy my team was (with some exceptions), I’m not surprised we moved down a couple places. Green means the team moved up in the standings; red means down.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]14417[/ATTACH]

[jrenaut]

So it looks like nothing much would have changed if we’d used your system. I guess that’s good – seems likely that we’ve chosen the optimal system (simple + as competitive as it’s going to get).

Look forward to starting up the “conversations” about rule changes for next year!

[Author]

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