Protected Bike Lane on Quincy btwn 9th and Wilson
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mstone.
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September 19, 2018 at 11:57 pm #1089826
JuddParticipantWABA just published a blog post about the Quincy Protected Bike Lane. It includes a link to send a note to the County. My comment noted that I hadn’t ever deliberately visited Ballston in the five years I’ve lived here and I’ve been three times since the PBL was installed and have spent money each time.
http://www.waba.org/blog/2018/09/arlington-delivers-a-bike-friendlyer-ballston/
May 22, 2019 at 2:47 pm #1098753Brendan von Buckingham
ParticipantBicycles have now been restricted from taking the lane on Quincy Street. They must use the bike lane according to the new signs mounted on the bollards. The signs were new to me this morning. I can’t find an image of the sign in the AASHTO standards, but it’s white and defines a split where cars must ride left and bikes must ride right. I would have taken a picture of the new signs this morning but a northbound cement mixer truck with trailer was wiping them all out as it turned right on Wilson while I followed behind it at its seven o’clock to make my right turn too.
May 22, 2019 at 4:01 pm #1098756
lordofthemarkParticipant@Brendan von Buckingham 190917 wrote:
Bicycles have now been restricted from taking the lane on Quincy Street. They must use the bike lane according to the new signs mounted on the bollards. The signs were new to me this morning. I can’t find an image of the sign in the AASHTO standards, but it’s white and defines a split where cars must ride left and bikes must ride right. I would have taken a picture of the new signs this morning but a northbound cement mixer truck with trailer was wiping them all out as it turned right on Wilson while I followed behind it at its seven o’clock to make my right turn too.
ISTR a car bike split sign at the entrance to the SB PBL on Hayes (though I can’t find it on google street view) I am pretty sure that sign did not indicate taking the lane was banned, and even if it did, I don’t think that would be enforceable in Virginia.
May 22, 2019 at 5:29 pm #1098758DrP
Participant@lordofthemark 190920 wrote:
ISTR a car bike split sign at the entrance to the SB PBL on Hayes (though I can’t find it on google street view) I am pretty sure that sign did not indicate taking the lane was banned, and even if it did, I don’t think that would be enforceable in Virginia.
Yes, it looks like the one on Hayes. I think it is there to let the cars know that it is not a car lane. It hasn’t stopped the gardeners from blocking the lane on Hayes. If they get one north of Quincy, I doubt it will stop the folks running in and out of subway and the ABC store, but at least I can point to it when I yell at them for blocking the bike lane. There is nothing about the sign that indicates to me that bikes are banned from the roadway.
May 31, 2019 at 1:25 pm #1098912ParticipantAccording to DOT sign standards white signs indicate requirements (speed limit, one way, etc.), yellow signs indicate advice (curve ahead, reduce speed ahead, etc.). By using a white sign they are saying that it is required for bikes to use the bike lane.
May 31, 2019 at 1:30 pm #1098914lordofthemarkParticipant@Brendan von Buckingham 191121 wrote:
According to DOT sign standards white signs indicate requirements (speed limit, one way, etc.), yellow signs indicate advice (curve ahead, reduce speed ahead, etc.). By using a white sign they are saying that it is required for bikes to use the bike lane.
It IS a requirement that cars not enter the bike lane, so a yellow sign would not be appropriate.
May 31, 2019 at 1:39 pm #1098915dasgeh
Participant@Brendan von Buckingham 191121 wrote:
According to DOT sign standards white signs indicate requirements (speed limit, one way, etc.), yellow signs indicate advice (curve ahead, reduce speed ahead, etc.). By using a white sign they are saying that it is required for bikes to use the bike lane.
What law would a bicycle violate by taking the lane? Seriously. I don’t know of any Virginia law, but you seem to have thought about this, so…
May 31, 2019 at 2:19 pm #1098917ginacico
Participant@lordofthemark 191123 wrote:
It IS a requirement that cars not enter the bike lane
Just curious, can you cite this law for Alexandria? Someone I know tried to look it up recently, and couldn’t find it. (The bike lane violators were parked PD cruisers in Carlyle.)
May 31, 2019 at 4:31 pm #1098922scoot
ParticipantFor sake of discussion, this is one of the new signs (looking northbound on N Quincy Street from the intersection with 5th Rd N):
[ATTACH=CONFIG]20113[/ATTACH]
May 31, 2019 at 5:02 pm #1098923ParticipantI think (hope?) we all agree that Arlington cannot legally prohibit bicyclists from taking the lane on Quincy. However, that is precisely the message communicated by this sign. If you interpret this sign as an indication that motorists are forbidden to use the bike lane, then by symmetry the sign also indicates that bicyclists are forbidden to use the general lane.
Many cyclists will not want to use the separated facility. Signage like this could encourage harassment from aggressive or uninformed drivers, possibly including police. If such a sign is needed to keep motorists out of the bike lane, then the left side should be depicted for cars and bikes, with the right side for bikes only. Also it would be helpful to paint sharrows in the general travel lane to emphasize that message.
May 31, 2019 at 5:20 pm #1098924lordofthemarkParticipant@scoot 191135 wrote:
I think (hope?) we all agree that Arlington cannot legally prohibit bicyclists from taking the lane on Quincy. However, that is precisely the message communicated by this sign. If you interpret this sign as an indication that motorists are forbidden to use the bike lane, then by symmetry the sign also indicates that bicyclists are forbidden to use the general lane.
Many cyclists will not want to use the separated facility. Signage like this could encourage harassment from aggressive or uninformed drivers, possibly including police. If such a sign is needed to keep motorists out of the bike lane, then the left side should be depicted for cars and bikes, with the right side for bikes only. Also it would be helpful to paint sharrows in the general travel lane to emphasize that message.
I think painting BOTH sharrows in the general travel and bike symbols in a bike lane would be confusing to inexperienced riders, if it is done anywhere in the country I am not aware of it, and I am not sure there are models for that in NACTO or AASHTO guides.
I think most riders who would be inclined to take the lane in lieu of a PBL such as the ones mentioned know the law and understand what the signs mean.
I am not sure a sign with bikes and cars on the left, and bikes on the right, would not also be confusing, but welcome both images of such signs in place and positive experiences with them.
As for harassment, I have yet to see evidence that its impacted by the presence of segregated infrastructure (we all have our anecdotes).
As for police, there is a simple policy answer, which is to educate the police about the bike laws. Police leadership who take this seriously and are bike riders themselves can accomplish this, I think.
May 31, 2019 at 5:45 pm #1098927mstone
Participantmain problem I see is that I’m not sure it’s a legal sign. The should have gone with a standard marking instead.
May 31, 2019 at 7:13 pm #1098928CaseyKane50
Participant@ginacico 191126 wrote:
Just curious, can you cite this law for Alexandria? Someone I know tried to look it up recently, and couldn’t find it. (The bike lane violators were parked PD cruisers in Carlyle.)
Sec. 10-4-45 – Parking prohibited in bike lanes.
Where the city has designated a bicycle lane, a motor vehicle may cross a bicycle lane for the purpose of the vehicle entering or exiting adjacent property, for making a turn, or for the purpose of parking, but no person shall stop, stand or park a motor vehicle in a bicycle lane. (Ord. No. 5185, 12/15/18, Sec. 1)May 31, 2019 at 7:23 pm #1098929baiskeli
Participant@scoot 191135 wrote:
I think (hope?) we all agree that Arlington cannot legally prohibit bicyclists from taking the lane on Quincy. However, that is precisely the message communicated by this sign. If you interpret this sign as an indication that motorists are forbidden to use the bike lane, then by symmetry the sign also indicates that bicyclists are forbidden to use the general lane.
I see the sign as simply an indicator of which lanes are which, not requirements. At least that’s the intent that I perceive. They are like painted lane markers in that regard. Of course, now we can ponder whether lane markers are legal requirements….
May 31, 2019 at 7:28 pm #1098930 -
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