Proposal to Light W&OD in Herndon, Public Comments Solicited

[JorgeGortex]

@acc 31166 wrote:

The Town of Herndon is soliciting public comments about a plan to light a portion of the W&OD that runs through the town.

http://www.herndon-va.gov/Content/Parks_rec/Rec_and_Trails_grant_application.aspx?cnlid=5045

Project Description: This project is to install light posts along the length of the Washington and Old Dominion (W&OD) trail that extends through the Town of Herndon. The installed lights would illuminate 3,800 feet of the 2.4 mile section of the W&OD trail in the Town of Herndon. The proposed trail section to be lit extends from Ferndale Avenue to Van Buren Street. However, the pedestrian bridge included in this section, in addition to the section of trail from Station Street to Elden Street, will not be lit. Approximately 50 light posts will be installed along the trail, as well as the necessary above ground transformers. Wiring will run underground from the transformer to the light posts and require temporary trenching.

Comments are due September 25th.

Let there be light…

I guess my question is: why? Is the area dangerous for riders? Bad sight lines, or questionable individuals lurking? Other issues?

Admittedly I am not out that way in the dark. With quality bike lights available, and my dislike for light pollution in general if I were to comment I’d not be in favor. However, as my questions above indicate I feel as if I’d need more information before commenting. I’ll probably not comment for those reasons since I’d want regular forum users to provide input based on experience.

Kudos to Herndon for looking into it though.

[GuyContinental]

@JorgeGortex 31229 wrote:

I guess my question is: why? Is the area dangerous for riders? Bad sight lines, or questionable individuals lurking? Other issues

I’m out there in the dark all the time but it’s never struck me as one of the true light voids (e.g. Hunter Mill). My guess is that the local walkers/runners are feeling vulnerable on the trail, particularly with some sexual assaults elsewhere in recent years. Otherwise, the trail is straight as it gets and is in ok condition. I guess that I’m vaguely in favor of it due to the high number of Loudoun ninjas and the lack of any natural feel (I’d be opposed to lighting the Hunter Mill-Vienna hill)

[mstone]

Agreed; this is for walker/jogger crime prevention, and is mostly irrelevant for bikes.

[acc]

Officially, the W&OD is closed after dark. One of my friends out in that direction gave up bike commuting because the police stopped him for being on the trail just after 9:00 pm in June. It was hardly dark. When Herndon lights the W&OD, makes it easier to justify being out on the trail after dark.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@acc 31256 wrote:

Officially, the W&OD is closed after dark. One of my friends out in that direction gave up bike commuting because the police stopped him for being on the trail just after 9:00 pm in June. It was hardly dark. When Herndon lights the W&OD, makes it easier to justify being out on the trail after dark.

So in winter it’s closed before anyone even leaves the office?

[mstone]

@ShawnoftheDread 31263 wrote:

So in winter it’s closed before anyone even leaves the office?

Yes. In practice, the police don’t generally hassle people who are pretty obviously commuting. (They seem to want the law so they can bust vagrants and vandals.) The possibility does exist, however.

[KS1G]

The section of the W&OD connects the Herndon Town Green (site of weekend & friday night concerts and festivals) and the rec center area. The 2nd stretch continues west to the town line at Crestview. It sees a lot of foot traffic during and after events, as well as dawn and dusk patrol joggers/runners. A lot (most) of those folks lack reflectors, lights, or, it seems, common sense. Lighting the W&OD in that area will help a lot. The town may also be concerned about crime-related safety. The plan was on an NVRPA agenda earlier this year, so it looks like they’ve addressed any “closed at dark” concerns.

[GuyContinental]

@acc 31256 wrote:

Officially, the W&OD is closed after dark. One of my friends out in that direction gave up bike commuting because the police stopped him for being on the trail just after 9:00 pm in June. It was hardly dark. When Herndon lights the W&OD, makes it easier to justify being out on the trail after dark.

Really? In June? I’d actually relish that encounter, the inevitable ticket, and the righteous, internet powered indignation that would follow… “I’m sorry officer, I’m supposed to ride down the Reston Parkway to Rt 7, in the dark, to get home???”

Ccrew posted a while back about being stopped 1-2 a year in the wee hours but they always let him go. I’ve never worried too much about it and never even seen a cop on the trail in the pre-dawn hours.

[rcannon100]

Arlco police used to ticket cyclists in Bluemont along the WOD. I cannot promise that they have stopped this practice. Seems like it is an recurring confrontation.

Technically, lighted parks do not close at dark. The Custis Trail, for instance, is lighted, and technically does not close at dark (I have been told).

This is consistent with the proposal that the MUPs should be removed from Parks and Rec – and placed in the hands of the transport department. You cannot constantly claim to be a Bike Friendly Community – and then ticket cyclists for biking home at rush hour in the winter (or blocking the trail with park trucks during rush hour to prune bushes).

[consularrider]

About a year ago one of my riding partners did a survey of MUP closing times in the area. If I remember right, the Custis is officially open 24/7, the MVT closes from 10 pm to 6 am, and most of the others close half an hour after sunset (I guess this implies they open a half hour before sunrise?).

[jabberwocky]

My understanding is that the W&OD closes at dark, but I commuted year round from Reston to Tysons from 2005-2010 and never once got hassled. In fact, I routinely rode by cops after dark in Vienna and Reston who would just give me a little wave if they noticed me at all.

Obviously I agree that trails like the W&OD should be treated like the transportation corridor they are, which means open 24-7.

[GuyContinental]

@jabberwocky 31348 wrote:

Obviously I agree that trails like the W&OD should be treated like the transportation corridor they are, which means open 24-7.

I think that the key is that LEOs need the closure regs in place to roust out folks that don’t belong- getting rid of the regs might make the trail less safe(?). It becomes a problem when an overzealous officer starts chasing commuters down.

I used to live in Phoenix and did a ton of night MTB riding in the mountain preserves (when it’s 110 degrees in the day you pretty much have to ride at night)- due to similar “sundown” laws (that frankly, I was blissfully ignorant of) I was once chased by a Maricopa County (Sheriff Joe Arpaio) helicopter and had my trail exit barricaded by cruisers… thankfully, I had a obscure alternate exit but the whole thing put a bad taste in my mouth- even from the air I was clearly on a mountain bike and they wasted a TON of resources trying to chase me down… for what? You’d think that the libertarian Arizonians would respect my ‘rights to ride in public resource whenever I chose. Maybe I needed a horse and a gun to fit the right profile…

Yes, I recognize that the resource wastage was instigated by my ignorance of the law, but selective enforcement should have kicked in here somewhere… maybe they were bored

[jabberwocky]

@GuyContinental 31358 wrote:

I think that the key is that LEOs need the closure regs in place to roust out folks that don’t belong- getting rid of the regs might make the trail less safe(?). It becomes a problem when an overzealous officer starts chasing commuters down.

I guess the question is who are the folks that “don’t belong”? I mean, if someone is lurking in the bushes, I don’t think the police need to use “the park is closed” to check them out/kick them off. And if someone is walking, well, people commute by foot as well. I see lots of obviously-low-income folks walking the trail in Reston and Herndon.

Anyway, the sad truth is that these days, the police don’t really need a specific law to hassle anyone they want.

[krazygl00]

@GuyContinental 31358 wrote:

I think that the key is that LEOs need the closure regs in place to roust out folks that don’t belong- getting rid of the regs might make the trail less safe(?). It becomes a problem when an overzealous officer starts chasing commuters down.

I used to live in Phoenix and did a ton of night MTB riding in the mountain preserves (when it’s 110 degrees in the day you pretty much have to ride at night)- due to similar “sundown” laws (that frankly, I was blissfully ignorant of) I was once chased by a Maricopa County (Sheriff Joe Arpaio) helicopter and had my trail exit barricaded by cruisers… thankfully, I had a obscure alternate exit but the whole thing put a bad taste in my mouth

You fled the cops? You…HOODLUM!!

[GuyContinental]

@krazygl00 31361 wrote:

You fled the cops? You…HOODLUM!!

Is it my fault if I wasn’t 100% sure they were talking to me? After all I could barely hear the loudspeaker over my death-metal music… and the zillion candlepower spotlights were waaaay better for high speed technical trail navigation than my NR mininewts.

Also lived in Mexico for awhile, there fleeing the cops is a way of life… we are very very lucky to live in a place where you can *generally* trust a LEO to be at least trying to do the right thing

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