Police Car Strikes Cyclists in Alexandria

[Brett L.]

@jrenaut 190019 wrote:

Before we do this, we have to increase public transportation so that people who lose licenses have other options. In dense areas you can survive without a license. In suburbs and beyond, you can’t.

Chicken / egg. Strip people of ability to drive, you’ll see the demand for alternative transportation options shoot up.

… I know that this isn’t going to happen, and I’m really just venting about a fantasy of mine where people start taking responsibility or suffer real consequences.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[jrenaut]

@Brett L. 190020 wrote:

Chicken / egg. Strip people of ability to drive, you’ll see the demand for alternative transportation options shoot up.

I hear you. But I fear that the people with real political power won’t be hit hard by this, while those who have very little could have their lives destroyed.

[scoot]

@jrenaut 190024 wrote:

… could have their lives destroyed.

Any more so than the families of Dave Salovesh and Abdul Seck?

[scoot]

That said, you are right that poor offenders would be far more inconvenienced than wealthy ones. Which is a problem. But the same asymmetry of punishments’ impact already holds true for any criminal offense/punishment, not just those involving driving. To fix this, a far broader solution is necessary.

[scoot]

@Steve O 190017 wrote:

It is hard to tell, but it may be that the person riding the bike entered the intersection on the walk signal – or perhaps the blinking hand? It appears the red hand goes steady about the time of the collision.

The green right turn arrow is certainly lit when the cyclist enters the roadway, so he was presumably facing a steady red hand.

I’m not too familiar with that area, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the walk signal is only activated by the beg button. While the default cycle probably just lights the green turn arrow whenever Route 1 traffic has a green. Typical car-centric suburban design.

All this arrow seems to accomplish is to give legal cover for drivers who hit people in the crosswalk. I can’t imagine that it even increases traffic flow measurably. But hey, at least a driver can hit someone and then point fingers at him, since he could have pushed a button and waited two minutes to see if the next Route 1 green cycle would deign to include him as well.

[dasgeh]

@scoot 190034 wrote:

The green right turn arrow is certainly lit when the cyclist enters the roadway, so he was presumably facing a steady red hand.

I’m not too familiar with that area, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the walk signal is only activated by the beg button. While the default cycle probably just lights the green turn arrow whenever Route 1 traffic has a green. Typical car-centric suburban design.

All this arrow seems to accomplish is to give legal cover for drivers who hit people in the crosswalk. I can’t imagine that it even increases traffic flow measurably. But hey, at least a driver can hit someone and then point fingers at him, since he could have pushed a button and waited two minutes to see if the next Route 1 green cycle would deign to include him as well.

According to Twitter, the beg buttons are required to activate the ped signal, but aren’t all working.

[ImaCynic]

@Brett L. 189991 wrote:

Can we start treating having a drivers license like a privilege rather than a right, and implement a zero tolerance policy? You were at fault in an incident, say goodbye to your license. You are never allowed to step behind the wheel of a car again. Everyone is in favor of getting the “bad” drivers off the road, but no one wants to admit that they might be one of them. We’ll soon see a drastic reduction in vehicles on the road, increasing trip efficiency and safety for everyone!

Good luck with that. Just see how popular zero tolerance policy, such as the one on immigration has been, not to mention all the unintended consequences such policy can bring about. Besides, anyone thinks that a driver’s license somehow qualifies one to operate a vehicle proficiently, is grossly naive.

Rather than trying to getting rid of bad drivers, I ride assuming that I am surrounded by them, and try to anticipate the stupidest possible move that they might take next to avoid getting killed.

[Steve O]

@scoot 190034 wrote:

The green right turn arrow is certainly lit when the cyclist enters the roadway, so he was presumably facing a steady red hand.

I’m not too familiar with that area, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the walk signal is only activated by the beg button. While the default cycle probably just lights the green turn arrow whenever Route 1 traffic has a green. Typical car-centric suburban design.

All this arrow seems to accomplish is to give legal cover for drivers who hit people in the crosswalk. I can’t imagine that it even increases traffic flow measurably. But hey, at least a driver can hit someone and then point fingers at him, since he could have pushed a button and waited two minutes to see if the next Route 1 green cycle would deign to include him as well.

I have no doubt that if the white walk hand had been on this exact same thing would have happened. Except then it would have been harder for the officer to wriggle free.
The police officer was doing exactly what most right-on-redders do: looking solely to his left until traffic cleared. He had no awareness whatsoever of the walk signal.

[Steve O]

@ImaCynic 190052 wrote:

Rather than trying to getting rid of bad drivers, I ride assuming that I am surrounded by them, and try to anticipate the stupidest possible move that they might take next to avoid getting killed.

This helps you, no doubt. I, however, also care about the safety of the other people riding bicycles.
If we assume there are going to be bad drivers, then we need to fix our infrastructure so that people are safe anyway.

[bentbike33]

@jrenaut 190019 wrote:

Before we do this, we have to increase public transportation so that people who lose licenses have other options. In dense areas you can survive without a license. In suburbs and beyond, you can’t.

If you’ve ever been to a small town and seen a solitary guy in street clothes riding a Walmart special with the seat too low, chances are you’ve seen a lost-license-from-DWI-and-if-you’re-caught-driving-again-you-go-to-jail situation.

[ImaCynic]

@Steve O 190054 wrote:

This helps you, no doubt. I, however, also care about the safety of the other people riding bicycles.
If we assume there are going to be bad drivers, then we need to fix our infrastructure so that people are safe anyway.

I do not think infrastructure improvement is a cost effective way to address the bad operators issue. Financial incentives for better operator training (ie reduced insurance rates, tax break, etc.) may work better. I believe elevating operator skills on the road is the key to improve safety for everyone.

[lordofthemark]

@ImaCynic 190056 wrote:

I do not think infrastructure improvement is a cost effective way to address the bad operators issue. Financial incentives for better operator training (ie reduced insurance rates, tax break, etc.) may work better. I believe elevating operator skills on the road is the key to improve safety for everyone.

Complete streets infra is not particularly expensive, and has been shown to work. Even people with good skills, who are not drunk, and are not falling asleep, and did not just have a coronary, and are not distracted by a screaming kid, will tend to drive too fast on a road that looks and feels like a highway.

[ImaCynic]

@lordofthemark 190059 wrote:

Complete streets infra is not particularly expensive, and has been shown to work. Even people with good skills, who are not drunk, and are not falling asleep, and did not just have a coronary, and are not distracted by a screaming kid, will tend to drive too fast on a road that looks and feels like a highway.

I don’t think speed is as big of a factor as some make it out to be, when it comes to car/bike incursions. Even a Smart car travelling at 25mph has plenty of energy to flatten a cyclist. On the other hand, necking down lanes might slow things down, but it also tend to cause drivers to bias to the right, and I think that poses a greater risk to cyclists.

[huskerdont]

@ImaCynic 190064 wrote:

I don’t think speed is as big of a factor as some make it out to be, when it comes to car/bike incursions. Even a Smart car travelling at 25mph has plenty of energy to flatten a cyclist.

The research does not bear this out. There are plenty of sources for this, but I’ll just point to one.

http://humantransport.org/sidewalks/SpeedKills.htm

Summary:

20 mph: 5% chance of pedestrian death

30 mph: 45% chance of pedestrian death

40 mph: 85% chance of pedestrian death

The numbers may vary a bit for cyclists, but you get the idea.

Getting people to obey posted speed limits could save a lot of lives, as could reducing speeds in areas with heavy pedestrian and cycling traffic.

[Steve O]

@ImaCynic 190056 wrote:

I do not think infrastructure improvement is a cost effective way to address the bad operators issue. Financial incentives for better operator training (ie reduced insurance rates, tax break, etc.) may work better. I believe elevating operator skills on the road is the key to improve safety for everyone.

Both and all. I’m all for getting drivers to be better. Research shows that drivers behave better when there are more people riding bikes. Building more comfortable, safer infrastructure helps address both issues.

I’m not sure how long it will take to educate 200 million drivers.

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