Petition to WMATA to change their policy regarding bikes during rush hour

[MCL1981]

Ha, oh good, we’re only 20 years over capacity then….

I’ve always wanted to see “Track 3” built and used as an express track. Have it run from the outlying parking lot stations to the few main inner core stops only.

[mstone]

Yeah, full capacity depends on the capital for more cars, and the O&M funding so cars work, doors work, escalators/elevators work, ATC works, etc. That’s why I make a distinction between what the system might be able to handle and what it’s actually able to handle in its current state. And that’s why if someone wants to see better support for bikes on metro, their effort is best spent fixing metro first.

[elcee]

Here’s a thoughtful article on bikes with respect to mass transit as a system:

http://www.humantransit.org/2010/04/can-we-all-cycle-the-last-mile.html

[americancyclo]

I read this article on Washcycle this morning and wondered if allowing bikes on metro would have the increases in mode share and decreases in SOV that Arlington saw with the increase in CaBi users.

I also wonder how many people are not being served by metro only allowing folding bikes at all times.
How many people would take advantage of this if it was allowed?
Would it make any difference in metro revenues?

[Mark Blacknell]

@MCL1981 17039 wrote:

Mark, the OP’s idea/petition NEEDED to be dismissed and shot down. He was not suggesting that we find a way to alter the system over time.

Really? Because this is what I read:

“I am a first time poster on this forum and recent cycling convert. [ . . . ] Please feel free to give me advice or help out.”

That’s not really what he got until later on in the thread.

@MCL1981 17039 wrote:

He was, out of anger for his own very stupid and arrogant mistake,

Seriously?

@MCL1981 17039 wrote:

The system’s present design simply can not accommodate bikes at peak times without placing people in extreme danger or discomfort.

Do you ride Metro? Because I associate most summer commuting with “discomfort”, and can’t imagine that anyone else who does thinks that’s really a reasonable standard. As to extreme danger, well, that’s just silly. SUV strollers, someone’s giant suitcase, and conference display units are physically comparable to bikes in size and effect, and I can’t think of the last time I looked at one of those and thought – “The danger, it is extreme.” Sure, I might think “That’s f’in annoying.” But not dangerous.

Now to be clear, this isn’t an issue that I particularly prioritize or want to champion. But it’s a legit discussion – connecting modes of transportation helps everyone. There are, in fact, solutions to it. The Washcycle thread heads down that path. This one? Did not.

[mstone]

@Mark Blacknell 17114 wrote:

Do you ride Metro? Because I associate most summer commuting with “discomfort”, and can’t imagine that anyone else who does thinks that’s really a reasonable standard. As to extreme danger, well, that’s just silly. SUV strollers, someone’s giant suitcase, and conference display units are physically comparable to bikes in size and effect, and I can’t think of the last time I looked at one of those and thought – “The danger, it is extreme.” Sure, I might think “That’s f’in annoying.” But not dangerous.

None of those things has any reasonable possibility of becoming a routine part of the commute of any significant fraction of the population. (Well, strollers maybe, but I’ve seen fairly few of those 6 foot long, two person strollers on the metro during peak. Few parents probably want to put their baby into that mess.) People talk about things like refrigerators on the metro exactly because they are rare and unusual. If that sort of thing becomes routine the rules should certainly be reexamined.

[5555624]

@americancyclo 17113 wrote:

I also wonder how many people are not being served by metro only allowing folding bikes at all times.
How many people would take advantage of this if it was allowed?
Would it make any difference in metro revenues?

You mean how many people would take advantage of being able to bring non-folding bikes on metro during rush hour?

I’d like to think that an serious cycling commuters who use Metro as part of their normal commute have a folding bike. After all, that’s the way the current rules reads.

If the rule would be eliminated, I think the biggest increases would be

– Emergencies — Can’t ride home due to a mechanical issue or weather (thunderstorms, snow, etc.)

– Tourists — after spending a day cycling around, they take the subway home/hotel. (I’m including not just tourists who have brought their bikes to DC, but locals.)

There are others — I work with a woman who won’t ride home, but will ride to work if her husband can pick her up — but I think those are the two biggest categories.

I can’t see a big impact on revenues unless other rules are revised, too. There is a weekday limit of two bikes per car, which is only a maximum of 16 bikes per 8-car train — if there is room. Barring some sort of zone system, many rush hour cars do not have room for one bike, much less two.

[acc]

I’ve done several of these commutes on packed trains.

1. Strollers
I used to commute on Metro from Vienna to L’Enfant Plaza with a six month old baby. My childcare was located inside the retail mall at L’Enfant and I worked two blocks away. It was unpleasant. Trying to wrangle a crying baby on a super quiet train at 7:00 am is something I’d prefer to forget. The fully loaded stroller plus my briefcase took up a lot of room but not as much as a bike. But everything is hard with an infant so commuting on Metro was just another hard thing.

2. Suitcases
I’ve used Metro to get to National airport and the experience made me switch from rolling luggage to a duffel bag. Dragging luggage is infinitely easier than wrestling with a stroller because the contents of a suitcase doesn’t cry, poop, or vomit.

3. Bikes
I’ve dragged a few bikes on Metro when it was quiet and when it was packed. A bike takes up much more room than a stroller or a suitcase. The handlebars are right at neck level for seated passengers and even when I was pushed back as far away from the doors as possible I blocked a set of seats. In order for passengers to get to those seats we played a fun little variation of the game Twister. When I boarded the train in Vienna the car was almost empty. By the time we reached Ballston it was packed to capacity. At Metro Center we played another round of Twister to let people in and out of the seats I was blocking. At Smithsonian it seemed as though half the train emptied onto the platform. As careful as I was, and I knew exactly where I was going and was familiar with this station, my bike was still getting bumped and nudged by people just trying to get through the crowd.

I’m all for allowing bikes on Metro. But understand there are real problems to manage during rush hour including probably having to watch several trains pass you by because there is no room for your bike. The platforms can be packed and if you don’t happen to stand right where a door opens, you and your bike probably won’t get on. And then there are the elevators. I’ve encountered so many elevators outages (from dealing with a stroller) I’ve learned to check online before I go to see if the elevator at the station I am trying to use is in service. Some of my bikes I can carry up stairs or balance on an escalator, but at least one of my bikes is too heavy for me to carry.

One solution may be to limit the stations where bikes can enter or exit during rush hour, the notoriously packed ones like Metro Center or Smithsonian.

ann

[americancyclo]

@acc 17145 wrote:

I used to commute on Metro from Vienna to L’Enfant Plaza with a six month old baby.

you are a champion and a warrior and you have my utmost respect.

[americancyclo]

@5555624 17125 wrote:

I’d like to think that an serious cycling commuters who use Metro as part of their normal commute have a folding bike. After all, that’s the way the current rules reads.

I assume that multi-modal commuters are resourceful and innovative folks, and that the option of a folding bike is one of the considerations. So are metrobus, cabi, and taxi.

It’s possible that full size bikes aren’t fully compatible with a multi-modal commute unless you also add in lockers or racks of some kind.
I can empathize with the frustration Kwon Yang of College Park felt when he couldn’t take his bike on metro because that has happened once to me too. Once. I think it might be a conversation worth having if there are a significant (not sure what number of people might constitute that for me) number of people that run into this problem on a regular (more than 2x/week) basis. If there aren’t sufficient numbers having this problem often, then maybe we don’t have to worry about the regulations and can instead focus on better communication of the current policies and alternatives to using metro in a multi-modal commute. Ads on Cabi? A week celebrating bus racks on metrobus? A Cheat Sheet for station managers or a sign at the turnstiles explaining the rules and alternatives.

[mstone]

@5555624 17125 wrote:

You mean how many people would take advantage of being able to bring non-folding bikes on metro during rush hour?

I’d like to think that an serious cycling commuters who use Metro as part of their normal commute have a folding bike. After all, that’s the way the current rules reads.

If the rule would be eliminated, I think the biggest increases would be

– Emergencies — Can’t ride home due to a mechanical issue or weather (thunderstorms, snow, etc.)[/quote]

I completely agree with this one, though I’m not sure I’d call it an “emergency”, and I suspect it would be any time it rains in the afternoon when the forecast said it wouldn’t. And if the rules say you can do it, I suspect it will be a lot more than a couple of people who take advantage of the opportunity.

Quote:

– Tourists — after spending a day cycling around, they take the subway home/hotel. (I’m including not just tourists who have brought their bikes to DC, but locals.)

I’d consider this a group that can accommodate the current rule without a lot of hardship.

Quote:

I can’t see a big impact on revenues unless other rules are revised, too. There is a weekday limit of two bikes per car, which is only a maximum of 16 bikes per 8-car train — if there is room. Barring some sort of zone system, many rush hour cars do not have room for one bike, much less two.

This is the part that many of us have trouble grokking. Why would you think people wouldn’t try to stuff the bike onto a car in which it won’t fit, once they’ve managed to easily get to the platform? This is the same system that routinely has the remains of peoples’ lunches on the floor under the no eating signs, and has a lot of trouble with people cramming their way into a full car, breaking the doors. But cyclists are saints, and would only follow the rules? If the doors open and the car already has two bikes, the guy waiting will just stand back and wait for the next train? Even if it takes 2 or 3 or 4 trains before he’s lucky enough to be standing in front of a car without bikes? (Because no way he’s gonna be able to run to the next car before the doors close, even if it’s empty.) Somehow this will be the one commuting mode in metro dc where everyone is simply polite and the system polices itself?

[eminva]

Not that this will solve Metro’s vast revenue problems, but when I was last in Berlin, my sister and I took our bikes on the U-Bahn and we had to pay a fare for the bikes, too.

My memory was that they didn’t have any restrictions on when you could take your bike on the U-Bahn, but I just looked it up and apparently they have a rush hour prohibition, too. So I guess we are not alone.

Liz

[baiskeli]

@acc 17145 wrote:

Dragging luggage is infinitely easier than wrestling with a stroller because the contents of a suitcase doesn’t cry, poop, or vomit.

Unless you pack your kid.

[5555624]

@mstone 17157 wrote:

This is the part that many of us have trouble grokking. Why would you think people wouldn’t try to stuff the bike onto a car in which it won’t fit, once they’ve managed to easily get to the platform? This is the same system that routinely has the remains of peoples’ lunches on the floor under the no eating signs, and has a lot of trouble with people cramming their way into a full car, breaking the doors. But cyclists are saints, and would only follow the rules? If the doors open and the car already has two bikes, the guy waiting will just stand back and wait for the next train? Even if it takes 2 or 3 or 4 trains before he’s lucky enough to be standing in front of a car without bikes? (Because no way he’s gonna be able to run to the next car before the doors close, even if it’s empty.) Somehow this will be the one commuting mode in metro dc where everyone is simply polite and the system polices itself?

Oh, I think that once they’ve got their bike through the gates, they’ll try and cram them on a car. The people arguing for bikes during rush hour are ignoring the two bikes per car limit, too. I also think they will use the middle doors, ignoring that rule.

As my posts have indicated, I’m not in favor of any changes to the current rules. I was simply answering someone’s post of who might take advantage of taking non-folding bikes on during rush hour other than commuters.

[paytonc]

“Would it make any difference in metro revenues?”

Yes, it would hurt revenues. One bike takes the space of three standing passengers, and even more space for maneuvering. I’ve been on plenty of trains outside rush hour where it is honestly difficult to get a bike through, i.e., so that I’m not blocking the doors that are going to open at the next station.

As the Human Transit article notes, most bike-friendly countries don’t have a culture of bringing bikes on trains — throughout Europe, bikes are typically treated as checked baggage aboard trains. Instead, rail stations in Denmark, Japan, and the Netherlands are surrounded by thousands of cheap “station bikes” that passengers ride to/from the station. Bike sharing can help to consolidate at least a few of these bikes in higher-density areas.

[Author]

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