Open House Regarding Capital Bikeshare Stations at Gravelly Point & Roosevelt Island

[rayatkinson]

@KLizotte 154571 wrote:

No, no, no!!!!!!!!! That is the worst possible spot. That area is total chaos during daylight hours all day on weekends and afternoons/evenings during the week. It is like proposing a bus stop in the middle of Times Square. I thought Gravelly Pt was supposed to get a new bike path that led away from the crowds? We need that more than a Cabi station.

How about locating the station near the boat ramp or the other side of the intersection from the toilets.

The NPS is concerned about blocking the view but unconcerned about stinky, unsanitary port-o-potties?! Bizarre.

The below illustration shows an updated version of the proposed Gravelly Point station. I would like to get your and everyone else’s feedback. We are still negotiating with the NPS and Motivate (Capital Bikeshare operator) so the below illustration isn’t final. I read everyone’s concerns about the station being located near the portable restrooms and close to the trail so I moved the station further from the trail and rotated it 180 degrees, which means people will access the bikes from the north (field) side of the station. Due to few alternative locations, we haven’t been able to move the station away from the portable restrooms. What do you think about the new proposed Gravelly Point station?

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[EasyRider]

Ray, thanks for trying.

Is this correct: NPS is asking that the Bikeshare station be placed east of the portable toilets in the primo spot for plane watching, because those toilets are already blocking the drivers’ views of the city from the GW Parkway. The overriding site location consideration is not safety or accessibility, but preserving an unobstructed view west (except for the toilets) for drivers on the parkway (who should be looking north and south).

[Tim Kelley]

Perhaps Ray can correct me or add something to this, but I heard there was an issue with getting the flatbed crane truck in.

Because the crane would temporarily (like 3 minutes) need to be extended to unload the docks, it would conflict with the flight paths.

If this seems crazy and silly to you, we’re in the same boat.

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[KLizotte]

@rayatkinson 155572 wrote:

The below illustration shows an updated version of the proposed Gravelly Point station. I would like to get your and everyone else’s feedback. We are still negotiating with the NPS and Motivate (Capital Bikeshare operator) so the below illustration isn’t final. I read everyone’s concerns about the station being located near the portable restrooms and close to the trail so I moved the station further from the trail and rotated it 180 degrees, which means people will access the bikes from the north (field) side of the station. Due to few alternative locations, we haven’t been able to move the station away from the portable restrooms. What do you think about the new proposed Gravelly Point station?

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Nope, no, nada, non, and nyet. Still an absolutely *terrible* spot.

It’s very dangerous for cyclists to go through that area today because

1) People are coming in and out of the port-o-potties without looking (and probably suffering from oxygen loss due to holding their breath).

2) Tourists wander all over the MUP like zombies even when big shiny objects are rolling straight at them and making lots of noise – ding, ding, ding (how these tourist managed to actually drive to Gravelly point safely always baffles me). Seriously, they look at you and simply do not comprehend that they are on the wrong side and need to move or else they simply just stand in the middle of the MUP when there is grass right over there!

3) Tourists and regulars alike routinely allow their children to lie down, play, and walk unimpeded along the MUP in that area like it’s a playground (I’ve had to weave around at least ten scooters lying on the MUP over the last four years; I once saw someone lay out a picnic blanket across the MUP by the trash cans).

4) Even informed visitors get caught up watching the planes and walk around like zombies.

5) Cyclists and runners don’t always behave well themselves (usually in a hurry during the afternoon commute); I’ve seen a couple of collisions that did not end well right in front of the trash cans.

6) People taking out a Cabi are often wobbly for a bit till they get used to the bike (just this weekend a guy on a Cabi went very wide on a MUP turn and I had to slam on the brakes in order to avoid a head-on collision; he simply looked at me blankly, didn’t apologize, slow down or even touch his brakes). Cabi riders, esp those unfamiliar with MUPs and the general area pose a risk to other MUP users.

Do not bring on the zombie apocalypse!!!! Even if you have to move the station so that it is further north and people have to walk a bit is preferable.

[rayatkinson]

@EasyRider 155578 wrote:

Ray, thanks for trying.

Is this correct: NPS is asking that the Bikeshare station be placed east of the portable toilets in the primo spot for plane watching, because those toilets are already blocking the drivers’ views of the city from the GW Parkway. The overriding site location consideration is not safety or accessibility, but preserving an unobstructed view west (except for the toilets) for drivers on the parkway (who should be looking north and south).

Since the capitol viewshed is required to be preserved by federal law, the toilets can’t be blocking the capitol viewshed unless the toilets were grandfathered in like the Gravelly Point parking lot. While cars parked in the Gravelly Point parking lot likely would be blocking the capitol viewshed, I heard that the Gravelly Point parking lot was built before the capitol viewshed was created so it was grandfathered in.

We (Arlington and Motivate) have been discussing with the NPS about safety and accessibility concerns, which the updated station location that I shared today tries to resolve. We believe this shows that preserving the capitol viewshed, which is federal law, isn’t the overriding site location consideration. We all want the station to be in a safe and accessible location.

[rayatkinson]

@Tim Kelley 155579 wrote:

Perhaps Ray can correct me or add something to this, but I heard there was an issue with getting the flatbed crane truck in.

Because the crane would temporarily (like 3 minutes) need to be extended to unload the docks, it would conflict with the flight paths.

If this seems crazy and silly to you, we’re in the same boat.

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Yes, you are correct. While Paul (my boss) has been directly trying to resolve this issue, he informed me about what is happening. Due to airport regulations, Motivate (Capital Bikeshare operator) can’t use the flatbed crane for station installation so Motivate plans to use a hand truck to carry two docks of the station in during each load. We (Arlington) adjusted our station equipment order for Gravelly Point to request all two-dock plates, which are more expensive, instead of the normal and cheaper four-dock plates. While the airport regulations make sense to me, it has made coordinating the station install more complicated than normal.

[rayatkinson]

@KLizotte 155580 wrote:

Nope, no, nada, non, and nyet. Still an absolutely *terrible* spot.

It’s very dangerous for cyclists to go through that area today because

1) People are coming in and out of the port-o-potties without looking (and probably suffering from oxygen loss due to holding their breath).

2) Tourists wander all over the MUP like zombies even when big shiny objects are rolling straight at them and making lots of noise – ding, ding, ding (how these tourist managed to actually drive to Gravelly point safely always baffles me). Seriously, they look at you and simply do not comprehend that they are on the wrong side and need to move or else they simply just stand in the middle of the MUP when there is grass right over there!

3) Tourists and regulars alike routinely allow their children to lie down, play, and walk unimpeded along the MUP in that area like it’s a playground (I’ve had to weave around at least ten scooters lying on the MUP over the last four years; I once saw someone lay out a picnic blanket across the MUP by the trash cans).

4) Even informed visitors get caught up watching the planes and walk around like zombies.

5) Cyclists and runners don’t always behave well themselves (usually in a hurry during the afternoon commute); I’ve seen a couple of collisions that did not end well right in front of the trash cans.

6) People taking out a Cabi are often wobbly for a bit till they get used to the bike (just this weekend a guy on a Cabi went very wide on a MUP turn and I had to slam on the brakes in order to avoid a head-on collision; he simply looked at me blankly, didn’t apologize, slow down or even touch his brakes). Cabi riders, esp those unfamiliar with MUPs and the general area pose a risk to other MUP users.

Do not bring on the zombie apocalypse!!!! Even if you have to move the station so that it is further north and people have to walk a bit is preferable.

Thank you for sharing your concerns. I also frequently use the Mount Vernon Trail and other trails in the DC region so I’m familiar with your concerns. The station location isn’t final so we are still taking public input. Regarding your statement, “Even if you have to move the station so that it is further north and people have to walk a bit is preferable,” how far north do you want the station?

One thing to consider when thinking about how far north you want the station to be is that the concrete pad has to be extended further north as well. This means more natural area has to be covered with concrete, which isn’t good for the environment. Would you prefer the concrete pad to be extended further north or for us to find another location for the Gravelly Point station?

You previously wrote, “How about locating the station near the boat ramp or the other side of the intersection from the toilets.” My concerns with locating the station near the boat ramp is the station may not be visible enough to find from the trail and may not be located conveniently enough for trail users. Do you think trail users can see the boat ramp from the trail and are willing to walk far off the trail to access the station?

Regarding the other side of the intersection from the toilets, this location would block the capitol viewshed, which is required by federal law. Yes, it has been challenging to find a workable location for the Gravelly Point station.

[Steve O]

Is the entirety of the parking lot in the viewshed? I would suspect that there is some sort of diagonal line that defines the eastern edge. If we could learn where that line is, there may be places on the parking lot itself that would be both out of the viewshed and relatively convenient to the trail. Without knowing exactly where the viewshed ends makes it difficult to suggest other locations.

Another option would be to move it a good 50 yards to the east, completely away from the most congested area.

[dbb]

The NPS might want to look at the environmental review (I think it was an EA) they did a few years back about Gravelly Point. One of the key points in that study was an attempt to deconflict all of the uses at that particular location.

With all the development along the waterfront in SW DC, much of the viewshed has been compromised.

[LeprosyStudyGroup]

Thanks for your work on this stuff and for reaching out about this project Ray. It seems tough.

Looks to me like the project is stuck with no workable alternatives to a bad design, and no exceptions are able to be made to locate it in a more practical area (none of which I’d blame anybody working on the project for). I’m a bit confused as to why “the public” is being asked for input if it can’t actually be moved but a few feet from where it is already planned. I’d rather not see a cabi station at the location at all than deal with the daily conflicts and ill will that people using, and bikeshare vans servicing, a cabi station in that location is going to generate. It sucks for everybody in the end. So when can we expect the thing to be installed :rolleyes:?

[scoot]

@Steve O 155604 wrote:

Is the entirety of the parking lot in the viewshed? I would suspect that there is some sort of diagonal line that defines the eastern edge. If we could learn where that line is, there may be places on the parking lot itself that would be both out of the viewshed and relatively convenient to the trail. Without knowing exactly where the viewshed ends makes it difficult to suggest other locations.

+1. Is there a map that defines the capitol viewshed boundaries through this park? If that can be obtained and shared here, this community could reach a consensus suggestion pretty quickly.

[rayatkinson]

@Steve O 155604 wrote:

Is the entirety of the parking lot in the viewshed? I would suspect that there is some sort of diagonal line that defines the eastern edge. If we could learn where that line is, there may be places on the parking lot itself that would be both out of the viewshed and relatively convenient to the trail. Without knowing exactly where the viewshed ends makes it difficult to suggest other locations.

Another option would be to move it a good 50 yards to the east, completely away from the most congested area.

I never received the exact location of the capitol viewshed so I’m researching the exact location. I’ll share it with you when I find the exact location. I agree this should help everyone suggest alternative locations for the Gravelly Point station.

[rayatkinson]

@scoot 155617 wrote:

+1. Is there a map that defines the capitol viewshed boundaries through this park? If that can be obtained and shared here, this community could reach a consensus suggestion pretty quickly.

I never received the exact location of the capitol viewshed so I’m researching the exact location. I’ll share it with you when I find the exact location. I agree this should help everyone suggest alternative locations for the Gravelly Point station.

[Judd]

Saw a rendering of this station on Twitter. Tucked behind the portapotties and includes a pad to avoid docking on the trail.

https://twitter.com/wbjneibs/status/975754687243792384?s=21

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Judd]

Also interesting that they used the bike in bloom bike for the Gravelly Point rendering.

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