On E-Bikes…

[Tim Kelley]

@GovernorSilver 122303 wrote:

Haha, well, I had a good time last month – arlingtonrider, lordofthemark, Dan (something), Bobco, and others whose names I’m forgetting were all cool to me so that’s why I’m going again this month.

Was that a WABA happy hour or Washington Area Bike Forum happy hour?

[Tim Kelley]

@GovernorSilver 122302 wrote:

Given there was a point in my life that anything faster over 10 mph terrified me as a beginner, the top speed wouldn’t have made a difference.

BTW, the Spokes Etc. guys were saying they could hit 27 mph on that new Trek pedal-assist model (LIFT + STEPS I think was the model name), not that it would have mattered to me. So that’s how the “27 mph” popped into my head as I started participating in this thread. I don’t know if it’s because the display units were prototypes, or production models that hadn’t yet had some kind of limiting mechanism put in place to impose a max 20 mph limit, or something else.

Yeah, I think you misheard or misunderstood. I would expect that holding 27mph on a upright cruiser would be pretty terrifying: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/collections/electric_assist/lift_plus_lowstep/#

[GovernorSilver]

@Tim Kelley 122305 wrote:

Yeah, I think you misheard or misunderstood. I would expect that holding 27mph on a upright cruiser would be pretty terrifying: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/collections/electric_assist/lift_plus_lowstep/#

Or I got the model name wrong. This looks more like the bike i actually tried – it looked more like an electrified FX series hybrid or Allant:

http://spokesetc.com/product/trek-conduit-steps-electric-bike-12616.htm

The Lift + Lowstep was probably the other bike they had on display – it was a white one.

The black one was the one that the Spokes guys said that was sweet to ride at 27 mph on. It was in response to my amazement at the ease with which I was able to climb a hill at at least double my climbing speed on my commuter bike. Presumably they tested it on a street or parking lot – the one behind the Belle View shop is nice and long with plenty of space.

Good point about WABA vs. WABA forum happy hour.

[Steve O]

@GovernorSilver 122306 wrote:

Good point about WABA vs. forum happy hour.

All happy hours are good happy hours.

[KWL]

@GovernorSilver 122303 wrote:

Haha, well, I had a good time last month – arlingtonrider, lordofthemark, Dan (something), Bobco, and others whose names I’m forgetting were all cool to me so that’s why I’m going again this month.

You’ve forgotten me already. Next happy hour I’m stealing your pretzel.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

Don’t know. Let’s start the bidding at 15 mph. That sounds like a safe bike trail speed. Over 15 needs to be all you.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

@Brendan von Buckingham 122227 wrote:

If it looks like a bicycle and sounds like a bicycle, then it’s a bicycle. The more the better. However, due to the fundamental difference of an e-bike (they have an artificial power source) they should have governors or speedometers so that the rider, who’s one-step removed from being intimate with the speed, has certainty about their speed.

Don’t know. Let’s start the bidding at 15 mph. That sounds like a safe bike trail speed. Over 15 needs to be all you.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

What do you all mean, “There’s been 18 pages of comments since my last visit”?

Oh. I see.

To gain currency, I’ll add: anything with a motor should have a speedometer. Cars, motorcycles, moped, ebikes, etc. That’s the more important requirement in my mind. If you have a motor you need a number to tell you how fast you are going. If you are the motor you have an intuitive sense of how fast you are going, meaning a regular bike doesn’t need a speedometer. On a regular bike you are more intimate to the physics of the situation. If you have an ebike, not putting power into your 15 or whatever mph, you might tend to space out like I do when I drive my car. I never space out when I’m riding because I’m paying attention to lots of things, but primarily what my speed is.

I still think 15 mph is a good limit for a governor. It’s an average bike speed, safe for trails, safe in a group of cyclists, and let’s you keep up with traffic on any “comfortable” on-road bike route. Just because there’s a governor doesn’t mean you can’t go faster. Want faster than 15? Pedal.

[dasgeh]

@Brendan von Buckingham 122428 wrote:

I still think 15 mph is a good limit for a governor. It’s an average bike speed, safe for trails, safe in a group of cyclists, and let’s you keep up with traffic on any “comfortable” on-road bike route. Just because there’s a governor doesn’t mean you can’t go faster. Want faster than 15? Pedal.

Where do you get that 15mph is an average bike speed? I have a speedometer and on the Custis (the east side, before all the blind curves), I regularly ride 16-18mph and I’m around average. And as to your last point, have you ridden a fully loaded cargo bike? It’s a HTFU argument, and those really need to stop when talking about transportational riding.

Moreover, just because there’s a motor doesn’t mean you can’t go slower. Too unsafe to go fast? Brake. The stories of newbies getting ebikes and riding slowly at first support this point: there’s no need to design for the new cyclist — that person can easily feel the dangers of speed and just brake. Unlike in a car, where you’re surrounded by a bubble, you’re completely aware of your speed (even without a speedometer) on an ebike.

I’m curious: have you ever ridden an ebike? What type (Stromer-esque/hybrid bike with motor or cargo bike or something else)?

[Tim Kelley]

@dasgeh 122436 wrote:

Where do you get that 15mph is an average bike speed? I have a speedometer and on the Custis (the east side, before all the blind curves), I regularly ride 16-18mph and I’m around average. And as to your last point, have you ridden a fully loaded cargo bike? It’s a HTFU argument, and those really need to stop when talking about transportational riding.

Moreover, just because there’s a motor doesn’t mean you can’t go slower. Too unsafe to go fast? Brake. The stories of newbies getting ebikes and riding slowly at first support this point: there’s no need to design for the new cyclist — that person can easily feel the dangers of speed and just brake. Unlike in a car, where you’re surrounded by a bubble, you’re completely aware of your speed (even without a speedometer) on an ebike.

I’m curious: have you ever ridden an ebike? What type (Stromer-esque/hybrid bike with motor or cargo bike or something else)?

Gillian–to take this to the other end of the spectrum, what would you think if the federal regulations increased the speed limit for the cut-off to 25mph? How about 30mph?

[Steve O]

@Tim Kelley 122439 wrote:

Gillian–to take this to the other end of the spectrum, what would you think if the federal regulations increased the speed limit for the cut-off to 25mph? How about 30mph?

I stick to my previous opinion that there is no need to determine a particular speed.
OTOH, at some point an e-bike becomes a (electric) motor scooter. I’m not sure how to define that cutoff, but just because there are pedals doesn’t necessarily make it a bike.

I think BvB’s comment about speedometers, though, is worth considering.

[dasgeh]

@Tim Kelley 122439 wrote:

Gillian–to take this to the other end of the spectrum, what would you think if the federal regulations increased the speed limit for the cut-off to 25mph? How about 30mph?

I’d be fine with that. I believe at 35mph you increase risk of death/serious injury over 50% (at least for car on ped), so that seems like a cut off with a reasonable basis. Not that Congress has to have a reasonable basis for doing anything. (Sorry, back at work now)

[americancyclo]

@Tim Kelley 122305 wrote:

Yeah, I think you misheard or misunderstood. I would expect that holding 27mph on a upright cruiser would be pretty terrifying: http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/collections/electric_assist/lift_plus_lowstep/#

@GovernorSilver 122306 wrote:

Or I got the model name wrong.

Looks like there are two different motors.
Lift+ Lowstep, Lift+, and Conduit+ all have the Shimano STEPS drive motor unit (Rated drive unit power 250 W Max drive unit power 500 W)
XM700+ has the Bosch Performance Speed drive (250W) which boasts “sustained speeds of up to 28mph” on the Trek page

[peterw_diy]

Ah, governors. I love these eat-our-own discussions.

The Feds have been pushing for relatively cheap aerial drones to understand where they are (via GPS) and respect no-fly zones. If that’s viable for a $400 drone, then forget governing ebike motor speeds, make $15,000 cars understand where they are and not exceed posted speed limits, to reduce property damage, injury, and death caused by collisions with 3000 pound autos. And reduce pollution and carbon footprint, too.

Oh, wait, that’s politically impossible.

Let’s get back to picking on the tiny niche (ebikes) within the tiny niche (cyclists).

[DismalScientist]

I don’t want to be passing a car on a two lane road in a car with a governor. The speed limit be damned.

It’s not at all clear governors promote safety.

[Author]

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