October 2015 ABAC Meeting

[mstone]

@Vicegrip 126617 wrote:

To tell the system you are there and want it to change?

Um, “if the lights change anyway”. There are some intersections which never get a ped crossing if you don’t push a button. There are some intersections which get a ped crossing instantly if you push a button. There are some intersections which don’t seem to alter their cycle at all if you push a button. There are some intersections which have a broken button and won’t produce a ped crossing even if the button is pushed. There are some intersections where you see a bunch of people waiting to cross and assume someone hit the button but nobody ever did. The beg button interface is infuriatingly bad, and does not provide sufficient feedback to help people understand what is going on in any given instance. The existence of the class of intersections which have buttons which don’t impact the cycle makes the whole farce evolve from “annoying” to “let’s punch a traffic engineer in the face”.

[DaveK]

@mstone 126606 wrote:

…and if the lights change anyway, WHY IS THERE A BUTTON?

They’re required on newer signals because they house the audible signal equipment, regardless of if they’re needed to actuate the signal.

[dasgeh]

@DaveK 126632 wrote:

They’re required on newer signals because they house the audible signal equipment, regardless of if they’re needed to actuate the signal.

Wait, what? There’s no way to have a box without a button to house audible signal equipment.

[DaveK]

@dasgeh 126654 wrote:

Wait, what? There’s no way to have a box without a button to house audible signal equipment.

They house both a locator tone and an arrow to indicate direction, which is discernible through touch for the vision-impaired.

[mstone]

@DaveK 126655 wrote:

They house both a locator tone and an arrow to indicate direction, which is discernible through touch for the vision-impaired.

Then it should have a big sign that says “locator tone and audible crossing signal for the visually impaired” so people don’t get the idea that it’s a crosswalk button.

[Steve O]

@mstone 126658 wrote:

Then it should have a big sign that says “locator tone and audible crossing signal for the visually impaired” …

I thought you were going elsewhere with this, but then you veered into the totally common-sensical.

[PotomacCyclist]

@Emm 126586 wrote:

per your post on another thread–

In this case the light connecting the trail crossing on Potomac Ave across E. Glebe is in violation (as long as they count that path as a trail–which they should). It’s currently semi-automated and should be automated. This one could also use a leading pedestrian interval. It’s become a dangerous intersection. The current status is even when there is a walk signal for pedestrians to cross potomac ave where the trail connects, cars from e. glebe (which dead ends onto potomac) have a green light. Cars turning left or right have had numerous near misses, and at least one serious collision with a cyclist in the crosswalk. They don’t appear to expect pedestrians to have the walk signal at the same moment they have a green light.

It’d also help to have this as an automatic walk signal because the call box is placed VERY poorly for people on the trail. You have to veer right a little away from Potomac Ave onto Glebe, push the botton, and then veer left to go back towards Potomac Ave to cross the trail. Because of this many pedestrians and cyclists can’t figure out the call signal, or don’t push the button since it’s out of the way and in an illogical location for trail users.

That intersection is in Alexandria. Arlington won’t be able to do anything about this signal.

[Emm]

@PotomacCyclist 126672 wrote:

That intersection is in Alexandria. Arlington won’t be able to do anything about this signal.

Good point. I don’t know why I always think potomac yards is in Arlington.

[kwarkentien]

@Emm 126586 wrote:

per your post on another thread–

In this case the light connecting the trail crossing on Potomac Ave across E. Glebe is in violation (as long as they count that path as a trail–which they should). It’s currently semi-automated and should be automated. This one could also use a leading pedestrian interval. It’s become a dangerous intersection. The current status is even when there is a walk signal for pedestrians to cross potomac ave where the trail connects, cars from e. glebe (which dead ends onto potomac) have a green light. Cars turning left or right have had numerous near misses, and at least one serious collision with a cyclist in the crosswalk. They don’t appear to expect pedestrians to have the walk signal at the same moment they have a green light.

It’d also help to have this as an automatic walk signal because the call box is placed VERY poorly for people on the trail. You have to veer right a little away from Potomac Ave onto Glebe, push the botton, and then veer left to go back towards Potomac Ave to cross the trail. Because of this many pedestrians and cyclists can’t figure out the call signal, or don’t push the button since it’s out of the way and in an illogical location for trail users.

This one needs to get reported to Alexandria. This location is not in Arlington.

[PotomacCyclist]

@Emm 126683 wrote:

Good point. I don’t know why I always think potomac yards is in Arlington.

The former Potomac Yard was located in both Arlington and Alexandria. The SE section of Arlington is still referred to as Potomac Yard or Potomac Yard-Arlington (my preferred description). There’s even a small slice of the north bank of Four Mile Run that is actually part of Alexandria. Everything south of FMR (in the Potomac Yard area) is in Alexandria.

The FAST Potomac Yard transportation nonprofit group covers both the Arlington and Alexandria sections of Potomac Yard. They co-sponsor the two CaBi bike stations in the Arlington section.

[KWL]

@PotomacCyclist 126691 wrote:

The former Potomac Yard was located in both Arlington and Alexandria. …

We moved into Del Ray when the rail yards were still active. Our backdoor neighbor had been a fireman on the old RF&P line. There was a pedestrian bridge over the tracks at the end of our street where railroad employees could walk to work from their homes in Del Ray. At that time we referred to it as “Potomac Yards” not “Yard”. It was certainly big enough for more than one. Does anyone know when the name shifted to the singular? Or perhaps we were just wrong all those years.

[CaseyKane50]

@KWL 126699 wrote:

Does anyone know when the name shifted to the singular? Or perhaps we were just wrong all those years.

Here are a several references that use the singular

From the “History of Potomac Yard, Appendix 3, City of Alexandria, Va.” https://alexandriava.gov/uploadedFiles/planning/info/Appendices%20I-V.pdf

Potomac Yard, 1906-1987
In the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, the Washington, D.C. area became a major point for the transfer of freight between northern and southern rail networks. The railroads carried perishable goods, such as fruits, vegetables, and livestock, from the southern states to urban markets in the North, and transported manufactured goods from northern factories to the South. With multiple rail companies serving each region at the turn of the twentieth century, there was no central location for the transfer of freight between the northern
and southern lines (Mullen 2007:47). The situation was particularly difficult in Alexandria, where a significant bottleneck occurred with all these rail lines trying to pass through town. East/west City streets were blocked, as 20 to 30 trains per day came through on Fayette and Henry streets. With the rising volume of rail traffic, the system became increasingly unwieldy, and a movement to beautify Washington took up the cause to get the railroads out of the cities (Griffin 2005). The solution took shape as an unusual business undertaking, when six competing railroads agreed to band together to construct the rail yard and facilitate the movement of freight between the northern and southern rail lines. Potomac Yard, known as the “Gateway Between the North and the South,” became the largest railroad yard for freight car interchange on the east coast. When Potomac Yard opened on August 1, 1906, it had 52 miles of track that could handle 3,127 cars. The yard grew to a maximum of 136 miles of track crammed into a 2 1⁄2 to 3 mile stretch of land. At its peak, it serviced 103 trains daily (Griffin 2005; Carper 1992; Mullen 2007:47, 49).

From “History of The Long Railroad Bridge Crossing Across the Potomac River” http://www.dcnrhs.org/learn/washington-d-c-railroad-history/history-of-the-long-bridge

Out of this movement, Potomac Yard in Alexandria County, Va. and Union Station in Washington City were created. The old, separate city stations were removed. The plan also necessitated a new railroad bridge across the Potomac River at lower 14th Street to handle the increased freight and passenger flow.

From “Timeline of Washington, D.C. Railroad History” http://www.dcnrhs.org/learn/washington-d-c-railroad-history/timeline-of-washington-d-c-railroad-history

34) 1902-1906 New Long Railroad Bridge (August 25,1904) & Highway Bridge (February 12,1906) open across Potomac River. Construction concurrent with station consolidation in city proper, Potomac Yard & other McMillan Commission recommendations. Railroad bridge remains to this day, although largely altered during World War 11. Highway bridge removed from service 1961 and replaced; finally demolished May, 1967- March, 1969.

[lordofthemark]

@KWL 126699 wrote:

We moved into Del Ray when the rail yards were still active. Our backdoor neighbor had been a fireman on the old RF&P line. There was a pedestrian bridge over the tracks at the end of our street where railroad employees could walk to work from their homes in Del Ray. At that time we referred to it as “Potomac Yards” not “Yard”. It was certainly big enough for more than one. Does anyone know when the name shifted to the singular? Or perhaps we were just wrong all those years.

I worked as a financial analyst at CSX, doing cost analysis of proposed unit trains. We always called it Pot Yard. It came up a fair amount, as PY was the interchange between the Chessie, which CSX owned, and the RF&P which we only partly owned. So the routing from, say, Jacksonville to Baltimore, would be CSX -Richmond – RF&P – Pot Yard – CSX.

[PotomacCyclist]

I think it has always been Potomac Yard, singular. But many people use the plural because of other names like Camden Yards. The plural flows a bit better. I used to mix up the two myself, until I realized that all of the official organizations and citations use the singular form.

The shopping center in the Alexandria section is named Potomac Yard Center: http://www.mypotomacyard.com/

FAST Potomac Yard (covering both the Arlington and Alexandria sections) uses the singular: http://www.fastpotomacyard.com/

The office building complex in the Arlington section is called National Gateway at Potomac Yard: http://klnbretail.propertycapsule.com/property/output/center/detail/id:1058

It’s similar to Daylight Saving Time, which is also singular. Many people say “Daylight Savings Time,” which is incorrect. That’s because “savings” is heard in common terms like “savings account.” (This comparison is also relevant because DST ends next weekend, at 2 am on Sun. Nov. 1.) Every decade or two, it seems that Congress extends the number of months that we follow DST. Eventually, DST will cover 11.75 months of the year, leaving “Standard Time” at just one week. Or one day.

[Emm]

@PotomacCyclist 126712 wrote:

I think it has always been Potomac Yard, singular. But many people use the plural because of other names like Camden Yards. The plural flows a bit better. I used to mix up the two myself, until I realized that all of the official organizations and citations use the singular form.

It’s also a Michigan thing. We make stores and companies possessive/plural. It due to the history of family’s like Ford and Meijer starting stores/companies. So Kroger is Kroger’s, Meijer is Meijer’s, and I have attempted to do it to Safeway and Giant too since I moved here from Michigan but it doesn’t roll well off the tongue for them. But it does for Potomac Yards

[Author]

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