Nutrition and longer rides

[Mario20136]

@lordofthemark 141397 wrote:

Up till last weekend, I pretty much did not think about nutrition on rides – I made sure to have a full water bottle and to replenish it at stops, and basically ate when I was hungry – nothing real heavy, but no particular attention to whether it was carbs, or protein or whatever. I generally do not drink sugared drinks (my blood sugar tests at the bottom of the pre-diabetic range, so while I am not religious about the restrictions, there are some things I avoid or minimize) but on a long ride on the W&OD will get a smoothie at Green Lizard. When I get a beer, I limit myself to a pint at most, or just a sample size, to avoid dehydration (and other effects of alcohol ). And that is it.

But riding over 90 miles (and while still near the bottom of the strava rankings, relatively fast for me), I think I need to pay more attention. I was okay for the first 75 miles or so, but by that point (past Reston on the return down the W&OD) I was feeling a little shaky – like I needed something, maybe electrolytes? Maybe carbs? Definitely not a “meal”. I basically have never eaten “sports food” and haven’t had a gatorade or sports drink in years, but when I got to the Vienna Whole Foods, I decided to look around, and settled on a Cliff bar, which hit the spot – I felt better on the ride home. (note, prior to that the last solid nutrition I had had was an egg and cheese sandwich on the way out in Leesburg at round noon – and then a half pint of beer at Old Ox around 3:30, and I hit WF at around 5:30, so it probably was time for a meal, but somehow I did not want one)

Should I worry more electrolytes? Drink a sports drink? Get some kind of gel? Just keep some Cliff bars with me? What is the physiology here, and how should I use it to my advantage?

Paying close attention to nutrition is paramount to my daily commute as well as taking long rides i.e. half-century, century rides, or grand fondo on the weekends.

For starters, riding a 90 miles plus is not an easy feat. It requires detailed planning and preparation. For instance, I personally like to log at least 500-700 miles before I commit myself to day long riding activity. By base mileage, I am referring to the total accumulated consistent miles over a period of time i.e., weeks or months. This type of riding allows my body to adjust to different levels of riding whether spinning at high cadence or pushing large gears on various terrains. Also weather and wind direction plays a significant factor when going this distance. Riding 90 miles on a crisp fall day is invigorating; whereas, a 50 mile ride in the summer is brutal.

FYI, this is what I pack during a 5-6 hour ride:

• 1 Banana, 2 boiled eggs, 2 rice cakes
• 4 Water bottles during the ride (You can’t have enough)
• Bandana to protect your neck
• Application of sunscreen
• Of course, cool sunglasses!

I drink every 10-15 minutes and eat while I’m riding. If you drink after an hour long riding, chances are you are dehydrated and you might as well call it quits for the day. There are great online articles for recovery.

Post ride:

• Drink at least 1 cold water bottle or 1 bottle of cold chocolate milk or bottle of coconut water, and/or 1 small soda (optional) stored in my cooler. The water bottles are partly mixed with whey and fruit juices that are acceptable to my tummy. Again, I don’t like drinking sports drink because it causes acid reflux.

• Then replenish myself by eating dry cereals, fruits, and drinking more liquids. The more hydrated I am the less time to recover after a long fast ride.

The day after:

Easy spin in low gears for 1 -2 hours; if you are still tired and feel the lactic acid burning you need to flush it out – I suggest stretching and use a foam roller to flush out the lactic acid build out.

Finally, there are great books and online resources out there. It boils down to your personal goal.

Tim Kelley has provided excellent dietary links.

Happy riding!

[Subby]

Heh. Just eat some pie or whatever. Don’t overthink it. If there is no pie to be had, just make a sandwich and ziploc it and put it in your pocket. I guess you could bring goo or shot blocs or day old garbage from a back alley dumpster but why eat something that is terrible? Cycling is supposed to be fun!

[creadinger]

@lordofthemark 141425 wrote:

1. It seems from the above, that most folks rely on snacks, bars, drinks, etc the entire ride and never sit down for a meal. Is that correct? My roundtrip on the W&OD took 12 hours, about 8 in the saddle. Not sure not having a “meal” all day is a good strategy. Of course I could try go faster (note I am riding a hybrid)

2. I am have a hard time with the notion of drinking my calories (beer aside) or taking too much as simple carbs – years of changing habits that helped me lose weight (I used to be obese) and my concern about my blood sugar. I feel comfortable with the idea of cliff bars – seem to have a fair amount of fibers compared to sugars, a fair amount of unsat fat vs sat fat, and a general mix of nutrients, and some potassium.

This is all just my experience –

According to the BMI, I still am obese. 6’5″ 255lbs, but when you’re beat and need a pick me up, 12oz of Coke can be a real mood lifter for the final 30 miles of a tough ride. And when you’re burning several thousand calories in a day, some corners may have to be cut from a healthy diet if you want your engine to keep putting out watts. Or if you can find something homemade like Tim’s roasted potatoes that your stomach will tolerate for 12 hours all the better!

Since I’m not super fast, to save time I usually get most of my calories from convenience stores but occasionally I’ll stop for some real food. On my last 200K I stopped at a coffee shop in Strasburg, PA and got a massive egg, cheese, and bacon croissant. I tossed on some extra salt given the heat, and had an iced coffee as well. I felt awesome for the next 2 hours. The equivalent on the W&OD would be getting a pork sandwich with a side of mac&cheese at Carolina Brothers.

It is a mindbender how eating junk food like Snickers, soda and chips can keep you moving forward, but the key is knowing how much to eat. It is probably less than you think. I’m learning that staying slightly hungry, while not going over the cliff to bonktown maintains my appetite best.

I’m all for taking breaks and getting off the bike now and then, and sometimes sitting down for meals is appropriate. But sometimes they just get in the way of forward motion.

[Harry Meatmotor]

I’m too lazy to dig up all the white papers and journal articles, but Tim’s links are the tip of the iceberg and an EXCELLENT resource. Allen Lim’s work seems to jive well with me, and just about everyone that’s started feeding that I know, both on and off the bike, using his general philosophy. I hate to sound like a fan-boi, but I don’t think there’s any better drink mix than Skratch that I’ve tried. And every recipe I’ve tried from the Portables cook book has been awesome.

Basically, this, IMHO:

Osmosis, osmosis, osmosis. Get your quick burn simple sugars and electrolytes through your drink, no protein! Fewer ingredients (real sugar, no high fructose corn syrup) and less weird-body-builder/GNC chemicals/things-you-can’t-pronounce (I’m looking at you, Hammer Nutrition…) are usually better for digestion, especially after a couple hours. Get your protein, fat, and complex carbs (and more salt!!) from food you’d eat regardless of whether you’re riding or not. Rice, potatoes, eggs, chicken, bacon, nuts, oats, dried berries. The trick with eating “real” food on a bike ride is prep and packaging. Getting 200 calories of complex carbs, protein, and fat into something you can shove into a pocket (without spending more than $4 a pop) is hard to do if you’re not willing to make it yourself. Clif bars, if bought in bulk, are a pretty good inexpensive way to get “real”-ish food.

Another thing to perhaps spend some time looking at are different feeding habits for different times of the year. There’s a huge difference in what you’ll find palatable after an hour and a half at 34 degrees versus 30 minutes at 90 degrees versus 3+ hours at any temperature.

[Anonymous]

@lordofthemark 141425 wrote:

1. It seems from the above, that most folks rely on snacks, bars, drinks, etc the entire ride and never sit down for a meal. Is that correct? My roundtrip on the W&OD took 12 hours, about 8 in the saddle. Not sure not having a “meal” all day is a good strategy. Of course I could try go faster (note I am riding a hybrid)

It depends. I prefer real food and on the kind of ride you did would absolutely have stopped for a (large) lunch somewhere, just because it’s more enjoyable than eating bars and bananas all day long. The sweetness gets old by the end of a long day. But the other stuff works, too, it’s just not as tasty, so if stopping and sitting for a meal isn’t convenient, I am fine relying on snacks. Usually for rides longer than 2 hours is when I start needing something other than water, and I’ll snack throughout the ride. But I always carry some kind of food on the bike, and if I start to feel either starving or shaky, I eat something *immediately*. I bonked hard a couple years back– on not even all that long of a ride, I was not feeling quite right early on but didn’t really have the experience to recognize the problem– it took me about 2 days after to feel normal again and I have not been eager to repeat the experience.

[americancyclo]

@lordofthemark 141425 wrote:

1. It seems from the above, that most folks rely on snacks, bars, drinks, etc the entire ride and never sit down for a meal. Is that correct? My roundtrip on the W&OD took 12 hours, about 8 in the saddle. Not sure not having a “meal” all day is a good strategy. Of course I could try go faster (note I am riding a hybrid)

2. I am have a hard time with the notion of drinking my calories (beer aside) or taking too much as simple carbs – years of changing habits that helped me lose weight (I used to be obese) and my concern about my blood sugar. I feel comfortable with the idea of cliff bars – seem to have a fair amount of fibers compared to sugars, a fair amount of unsat fat vs sat fat, and a general mix of nutrients, and some potassium.

There’s a difference between an off the bike eating plan for maintaining a healthy body and an on the bike diet focused on fueling your body as you ride.

All the skratchlabs recipes are oriented toward a balance of carbs and protein that will fuel and sustain your body while constantly burning calories as you pedal. I’ve heard that fiber isn’t such a great thing while you’re burning calories on the bike.

On the bigger rides like Kill Bill where Strava says I burn over 5,000 calories, the important part for me is to eat every hour, at least 300 calories, preferably in the form of real food, and occasional Oreos. If I don’t keep up that hourly calorie intake, I ‘bonk’ after a few hours. that weak, shaky feeling is awful. I even got that the last time Subby and I did the coffee club caravan cannonball run since i didn’t eat enough beforehand and the coffee and pastries weren’t enough to sustain the pace.

[Subby]

@americancyclo 141441 wrote:

If I don’t keep up that hourly calorie intake, I ‘bonk’ after a few hours. that weak, shaky feeling is awful. I even got that the last time Subby and I did the coffee club caravan cannonball run since i didn’t eat enough beforehand and the coffee and pastries weren’t enough to sustain the pace.

FIELD-TESTED SCIENTIFIC PROOF. You cannot eat enough pastries or drink too much coffee.

[lordofthemark]

On the distinction between eating normally, and on a ride where I am burning a lot of calories, I intellectually get the difference (and that is why I did a smoothie (with honey) at GL – other than on rides, I have pretty much sworn off smoothies.) But its hard to feel right about drinking sugary drinks and eating sweet (OR simple starch) snacks all day long, even if am burning lots of calories. Not sure what my doc would say, but it is so far out of my habits.

As for a meal – well part of the reason to sit down, is that I just want the rest, some time in the AC, and a chance to recharge my phone. Now maybe that says I just am not really ready for rides this long, esp in this heat (Saturday was an opportunity that came up, wife was out of town and usually I just can’t manage to devote a 12 hour day to riding).

Note I am not riding more than about 12-13 MPH on the longer segs (with both up and downhills) , so I am not burning that much per hour.

I think in retrospect I would have taken a couple of cliff bars (or some of the other suggested snacks) with me, had one somewhere after my GL stop, had lunch in Purcellville instead of Leesburg, skipped the beer, had a cliff bar earlier instead. And then gotten hungry again in Vienna? Or skipped the beer (this is a depressing recurring theme, eh?) and stopped for another smoothie at GL, or a light meal in RTC, instead.

And I probably do not want to do another ride this long until autumn, I suppose. Even 70 miles is a good bit easier to manage, I think.

[huskerdont]

Guarantee you I can too drink too much coffee. Sometimes get palpitations just sitting around at werk.

Bit different, but one other thing I do, after a really long ride, is to make a fruit shake and put protein powder in it. I’ve been a vegetarian for about 12 years and I find I need a bit o’ the protein to recover right. If late enough in the day, I’ll toss a few ounces of rum in there as well and kill two birds with one stone.

[Emm]

@lordofthemark 141425 wrote:

1. It seems from the above, that most folks rely on snacks, bars, drinks, etc the entire ride and never sit down for a meal. Is that correct? My roundtrip on the W&OD took 12 hours, about 8 in the saddle. Not sure not having a “meal” all day is a good strategy. Of course I could try go faster (note I am riding a hybrid)

Personally anything heavier than 1/2 a pb&j and a smoothie makes me want to vomit shortly after getting back on my bike during really long rides. I have to eat small amounts, and often over the 6-8 hrs I’m on the bike. I’m not sure the science behind it, but it’s an issue I’ve encountered too often to ignore. I also have to eat my breakfast a good 30-45 min before getting on my bike in the AM if I have a heavier breakfast.

Granted though, I’m on a road bike averaging 16-20 MPH for those 6-8 hrs. If I was doing a slower more leisurely pace I might not encounter the stomach issues. I know I can handle a full meal and a beer at HH/dinner with friends and then safely ride home if I don’t go too fast or too far.

[ginacico]

@lordofthemark 141425 wrote:

1. It seems from the above, that most folks rely on snacks, bars, drinks, etc the entire ride and never sit down for a meal. Is that correct? My roundtrip on the W&OD took 12 hours, about 8 in the saddle. Not sure not having a “meal” all day is a good strategy. Of course I could try go faster (note I am riding a hybrid)

I often do eat a real meal, especially when we’re out touring. We’ll take whatever opportunities present themselves when we roll through town and get lunch. I try to stick to healthy choices with some protein, veggies, and some carbs (which are more immediately available as energy). At a touring pace, I’m not in my red zone and a meal doesn’t affect me adversely.

@lordofthemark 141425 wrote:

2. I am have a hard time with the notion of drinking my calories (beer aside) or taking too much as simple carbs – years of changing habits that helped me lose weight (I used to be obese) and my concern about my blood sugar. I feel comfortable with the idea of cliff bars – seem to have a fair amount of fibers compared to sugars, a fair amount of unsat fat vs sat fat, and a general mix of nutrients, and some potassium.

It’s a delicate dance between fueling yourself for activity and overeating, or undereating, either of which can throw your metabolism into a tailspin. I can’t even endure a sedentary day without a couple of real wholesome meals, so surviving on minimal snacks or convenience store foods during a long ride is out of the question. It’s physiology, and not an issue of willpower. My strategy is to eat things I’m accustomed to eating, and do it frequently enough that I don’t bonk.

Do check out the Feed Zone references above. With minimal cooking skills, you can make your own portable snacks out of real ingredients with well documented nutritional balance. I’ve completely eliminated manufactured, processed, prepackaged “power bars” of any brand, and am much happier for it.

In the hydration category I use Nuun tablets in one of my two water bottles (the second being plain water) for the electrolytes and some flavor.

[wheelswings]

I like to carry grapes, apple slices, almonds and cheese sticks, though bars and the kids’ dinnertime leftovers go down easily too… I’m not particularly choosy so long as it’s calories.

But what does matter is consuming liquids. Be sure to drink, drink, drink. Heat exhaustion /heat stroke are creepy (dizziness, nausea, fevers and fainting) and once you’ve tried them, you quickly realize they’re worth avoiding in future, even if the darn bottle of “gourmet” water costs three dollars. If that’s your only option, it’s worth every penny.

[americancyclo]

@lordofthemark 141444 wrote:

esp in this heat (Saturday was an opportunity that came up, wife was out of town and usually I just can’t manage to devote a 12 hour day to riding).

Saturday was really hot. All I did was sit at the ballgame for a few hours and I was exhausted. be careful with the sun exposure on long hot days! you’ll figure out the nutrition and pacing soon enough!

[hozn]

I second nuun tablets. And those electrolyte pills help. I have a hard time with the heat.

I use Ensure/Boost liquid “meals” instead of bars. That is a really good way to consume 300 calories quickly and easy on the stomach. For all-day rides or races, I will consume one every 1.5-2 hrs (assuming there are drop bags; I don’t carry that many in jersey pockets). I do carry caffeinated gel too, for races in particular.

Also there are few things that taste as good as pop tarts on hard rides.

[Author]

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