No snow clearing this winter

[americancyclo]

I put together this map back in 2010 when we got the killer snow storms, and really wish i could go back and watch an animated map changing over time.
http://goo.gl/maps/rM1Dw

[dasgeh]

@DismalScientist 68259 wrote:

Places like Arlington have a big problem with large snowfalls because they are rare and people are generally unaccustomed to dealing with snow. Arlington has adequately demonstrated that it cannot get neighborhood streets or public sidewalks plowed after large snowfalls. As a result schools are cancelled for long periods, etc. It just seems a little rich to suggest that Arlington lose its bicycle friendly status over this issue. As I pointed out, there are other bicycle friendly locations where trails remain ice covered in winter.

It’s a cost/benefit question. I do think Arlington should figure out a plan for plowing, but I’m ok if it’s not a plan that gets us to 100% scraped clean within hours of the last snow flake. I do think it’s embarrassing that we don’t have _any_ plan at this point.

As far as the silver status issue – I agree that your ire is misguided. If anything, I’m more upset about the lack of general maintenance on the trails, which affect users 24/7, than about snow removal, which affects users, I’d guess, somewhere between 0 and 30 days out of a year. But I don’t think lobbying for a changed status is the best use of our time.

I’m glad LAB is asking about snow clearing, but I hope they’re smart about how they use that information. Miami (and Charleston, and even Charlotte and Raleigh) shouldn’t get dinged for not having a plan.

G

[NickBull]

@Tim Kelley 68270 wrote:

And as an Arlington resident, did you send the same sentiments to your elected officials and the county government?

Hi, Tim,

No. Since I have friends on this Forum who are Arlington residents who have volunteered on Arlington bike committees for numerous years and who have brought up the issue of snow removal year after year, it is abundantly clear that contacting Arlington politicians is a waste of time. They have demonstrated abundantly that they just don’t care what we think.

However, they do seem to care about their bicycle-friendly “status”, so it seemed like as a League member it is reasonable for me to complain to the League. Perhaps the League might have some influence where actual Arlington residents have none.

Seemed like it’s worth a shot since all attempts that I know of to go through official channels have met with complete failure.

The notion that this is just beyond the capability of one of the richest per-capita cities in the entire nation beggars belief. As others have pointed out, it doesn’t have to be scraped to bare pavement and salted–plowing to the point where there is just a little snow is a big improvement. A few years ago, someone who lives near the trail and uses it to walk to the E Falls Church metro just went out there with their own snowblower and cleared themselves a large segment.

Nick

[Tim Kelley]

@NickBull 68305 wrote:

Hi, Tim,

No. Since I have friends on this Forum who are Arlington residents who have volunteered on Arlington bike committees for numerous years and who have brought up the issue of snow removal year after year, it is abundantly clear that contacting Arlington politicians is a waste of time. They have demonstrated abundantly that they just don’t care what we think.

However, they do seem to care about their bicycle-friendly “status”, so it seemed like as a League member it is reasonable for me to complain to the League. Perhaps the League might have some influence where actual Arlington residents have none.

Seemed like it’s worth a shot since all attempts that I know of to go through official channels have met with complete failure.

The notion that this is just beyond the capability of one of the richest per-capita cities in the entire nation beggars belief. As others have pointed out, it doesn’t have to be scraped to bare pavement and salted–plowing to the point where there is just a little snow is a big improvement. A few years ago, someone who lives near the trail and uses it to walk to the E Falls Church metro just went out there with their own snowblower and cleared themselves a large segment.

Nick

Try to have a little more faith! Be the change you want to see. It can’t hurt to share your thoughts with your favorite County Board Member!

[jabberwocky]

@NickBull 68305 wrote:

The notion that this is just beyond the capability of one of the richest per-capita cities in the entire nation beggars belief. As others have pointed out, it doesn’t have to be scraped to bare pavement and salted–plowing to the point where there is just a little snow is a big improvement.

A lot of the problem is that most of the MUPs aren’t actually run by the agencies that handle roads and transportation corridors. The W&OD, for example, is managed by the Northern Virginia Regional Parks Authority. NVRPA mainly handles actual parks, and treats their properties as recreation areas. From what I’ve been told, they don’t really have much of a budget beyond basic maintenance. Thats why I’ve always seen the “cross country skiers” excuse as a smokescreen. Sure, some people ski on them, but its a tiny number compared to the people who cycle and walk/run even when they are covered in snow. But citing that is the NVRPA saying “its a park, not a road”.

The main issue is that a lot of these MUPs are treated as parks first, transportation corridors second. With the rise of cycling in the area though, more and more people are using them for transportation. Its hard to argue that the W&OD is simply the best way to get between the myriad communities it runs through (which account for a lot of people). Same with the other big MUPs in the area.

What really needs to happen is that county and state agencies that oversee such things need to a) acknowledge that these are transportation corridors, same as roads. And then b) budget and provide the funds to the people who actually manage those trails so they can clear the damn things.

[NickBull]

@DismalScientist 68259 wrote:

I think you are missing my point. I have no problem with the county plowing the trails. However, you picked a trail to complain about that 1) is a sidewalk and therefore should be cleared by property owners and 2) is a place with an adequate on-street alternative one block away.

I can assure you that I ride all winter and on the Custis, if appropriate. I try to avoid the Custis downhill in that area in both winter and otherwise as I view it as unsafe relative to on street routing. It is unsafe, in my opinion, because it is basically a sidewalk into Rosslyn. Generally, I will take Clarendon down the hill and take Lynn, thereby avoiding the intersection of doom. An alternative for those of fainter heart (and the answer to your alternative routing questions) is to take Key to Veitch, make a left, cross Lee Hwy, continue straight on 22nd (I think) and continue straight on Scott (again across Lee Hwy) and straight onto Key again to Nash.

Places like Arlington have a big problem with large snowfalls because they are rare and people are generally unaccustomed to dealing with snow. Arlington has adequately demonstrated that it cannot get neighborhood streets or public sidewalks plowed after large snowfalls. As a result schools are cancelled for long periods, etc. It just seems a little rich to suggest that Arlington lose its bicycle friendly status over this issue. As I pointed out, there are other bicycle friendly locations where trails remain ice covered in winter.

Very little of the Custis is sidewalk that should be cleared by property owners. Going down Custis toward DC, basically the start of the descent down Rosslyn Hill is in a city park. Then from Scott to Quinn is sidewalk on the Lee side of the sound barrier. I don’t think that the sidewalk-clearing law applies in that case since the barrier separates the property from the sidewalk. Continuing down the hill from Quinn to N. Oak St is on paved bike trail. I doubt that property owners are required by law to clear paved bike trail. After N. Oak St., you’re done with the descent. I agree that it seems like Key Marriott should be clearing that sidewalk. But the entire descent down Rosslyn Hill seems to me to be Arlington’s responsibility. And other than this section of the Custis trail that has some sidewalks, very nearly the entire remainder of the trail is paved bike trail that does not appear to me to be property owner’s responsibility. (The only other exception I can think of is the sidewalk at the top of Rosslyn Hill on the bridge over 66–again, Arlington’s responsibility.) So … sure, Arlington can say it will clear the Custis except the parts that should be cleared by property owners. But then it would be accepting responsibility for clearing the whole trail except by Key Marriott.

I will probably try your suggested route, thanks. That’s an acceptable detour for bikes. For pedestrians, there is no reason they should need to add that much distance. I understand, the trail is not a top priority route to clear. But after they’re done with major and minor roads, they can have a few workers with snowblowers get out there and clear the trail.

Nick

[rcannon100]

I blog about Arlington bike issues. I write and contact the board on a regular basis. I surveyed the candidates for Board an election ago or so, back when there were multiple candidates to fill a chair. And I have known to collar a board member at a social gather.

All in all – I would say the Arlco Board and govt is VERY responsive to input. Hey, its a democracy. You are not going to win every fight and there are lots of constituents’ interests to pay attention to. Not winning a fight is not the same as leadership doesnt listen. I have been very impressed by general responsiveness.

Except on the Intersection of Doom. I mean come on :rolleyes:

I agree with Tim. Always contact Arlco directly – and dont assume they have heard your point of view from someone else.

[mstone]

@NickBull 68309 wrote:

But after they’re done with major and minor roads, they can have a few workers with snowblowers get out there and clear the trail.

Um, I think that is exactly what the plan is. (They’re not great about minor roads, either.)

[NickBull]

@Tim Kelley 68306 wrote:

Try to have a little more faith! Be the change you want to see. It can’t hurt to share your thoughts with your favorite County Board Member!

Tim,

I’d have more faith if there were any signs of progress on this issue. The trails are just as unplowed now as when I moved here in 1991.

Nonetheless, thanks for posting the email address.

Nick

[NickBull]

@mstone 68315 wrote:

Um, I think that is exactly what the plan is. (They’re not great about minor roads, either.)

Interestingly, a few years back they got really good about clearing the road I live on. Turned out, a neighbor tells me that one of the news media people had moved onto my street. But they moved and my street is back to normal.

[jabberwocky]

@NickBull 68319 wrote:

Interestingly, a few years back they got really good about clearing the road I live on. Turned out, a neighbor tells me that one of the news media people had moved onto my street. But they moved and my street is back to normal.

In the immortal words of Mark Twain, “never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel.”

[Tim Kelley]

@NickBull 68318 wrote:

Tim,

I’d have more faith if there were any signs of progress on this issue. The trails are just as unplowed now as when I moved here in 1991.

Nonetheless, thanks for posting the email address.

Nick

It’s a slow process and these things take time, especially since there are a couple different county divisions involved in the process. (Parks /Water, Sewer, Streets / Transportation Engineering & Operations) There has been significant discussion and I believe that progress has been made. Since there hasn’t been much snow in the past few years, there hasn’t been the opportunity to really push the issue or test potential solutions, but I’m hopeful that if we do get snow the County will be better prepared. But yes, please continue to push the issue with your government representatives.

So, did you ever get a response from Andy?

[DismalScientist]

The sidewalk parts of the Custis in county-owned areas should be cleared by the county by law regardless of what they do with the rest of the trail. Unfortunately, the county and property owners don’t seem to do a good job clearing snow off of sidewalks regardless of the presence of bicyclists. Check out the sidewalks along Washington Blvd after a snowstorm near the East Falls Church metro after a storm: it’s just as bad as the WOD even though both are major routes for pedestrians.

A problem with the county waiting to clear the trails until they do minor roads is that, by that time, it’s too late as people have already caused the trails to ice up. During 2010, I cleared my sidewalks almost a week before my street was plowed (and the snowflakes falling beginning the next storm).

If trails are going to be plowed, I would prefer priority placed on the WOD and MVT as there are fewer alternatives to these routes.

[mstone]

@NickBull 68319 wrote:

Interestingly, a few years back they got really good about clearing the road I live on. Turned out, a neighbor tells me that one of the news media people had moved onto my street. But they moved and my street is back to normal.

A friend had really good snow performance (like, as the flakes fell) because the mother of a board of supervisors member lived on his street.

[rcannon100]

@NickBull 68318 wrote:

Tim,

I’d have more faith if there were any signs of progress on this issue. The trails are just as unplowed now as when I moved here in 1991.

This isnt entirely true. Why, because the trails themselves are not the same. The trails have changed since 1991. The big one is the FMR connector from Shilington to CC. Other improvements include improved crossings, improved signs, and improved hours.

On point, you are right. Snow plowing has not changed. And I would agree with the bigger point – Arlco continues to not treat the bike arteries as vital transportation lanes. Parks and Wreck thinks nothing of closing the bike trails during rush hour and not providing adequate detours.

However, progress? in the big picture, there has been tremendous progress. And I feel much safer cycling in Arlington than I did 25 years ago.

[Author]

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