No snow clearing this winter

[baiskeli]

@jabberwocky 68029 wrote:

I’ve always seen the “cross country ski” thing as a barely concealed excuse to avoid the cost of plowing. I rode the W&OD all winter long for several years and never saw someone on skis, even when there was lots of snow on the ground.

Without taking a side on the plowing thing, I have to say that I ski on the trails and in the parks, and I see others do it every time there’s enough snow.

[Steve O]

The answer to the Ski v bike problem is to plow half the trail (one side that is–not halfway to DC). That way the peds and bikes will walk and use the plowed side and the snowy side will stay that way for the skiers. Now it just becomes essentially impassable for everyone within hours. Walkers will continue to walk on the fresh snow sections to avoid the ice until the entire trail is ice from edge to edge. We’ve all seen that happen.

But if half the trail is plowed, then all the walkers will walk on the plowed surface, leaving the unplowed snow fresh for the skiers. Win win.

[Greenbelt]

@Steve O 68179 wrote:

The answer to the Ski v bike problem is to plow half the trail (one side that is–not halfway to DC). That way the peds and bikes will walk and use the plowed side and the snowy side will stay that way for the skiers. Now it just becomes essentially impassable for everyone within hours. Walkers will continue to walk on the fresh snow sections to avoid the ice until the entire trail is ice from edge to edge. We’ve all seen that happen.

But if half the trail is plowed, then all the walkers will walk on the plowed surface, leaving the unplowed snow fresh for the skiers. Win win.

Agree, I think just a 3 or 4 foot plow strip with a little ATV plow like they have for sidewalks would suffice. There aren’t many people on the trails when it snows anyway, so bikes and peds can share the narrow. And spots exposed to sun usually melt pretty quick — it’s the shady spots that otherwise get glaciated that are the problem.

[NickBull]

@Steve O 67983 wrote:

Chris Slatt posted this message from David Goodman of the Arlington County Staff on the Arlington County Bicycle Advisory Committee list serve this morning:

As I have told the committee before, if Arlington continues to insist that it somehow deserves to be considered for a Gold Bicycle-Friendly Community certification from the League of American Bicyclists, I will personally go down to their offices and lobby to have it rolled back to Silver. No community that treats its bicycle and ped transportation corridors as second-class to its roads deserves to consider itself somehow among the elite communities in the United States.

I just sent the following to Andy Clarke and the League of American Bicyclists:

Dear Andy Clarke and League of American Bicyclists,

Yet again, Arlington VA plans to fail to plow routes that are critical to bicycle-commuters and pedestrians alike. See email copied below. In particular, the only route from the top of Rosslyn Hill down to Key Bridge and also to the Rosslyn Metro is the shared sidewalk / Custis-trail-bikepath. Arlington’s neglect of plowing this critical route goes beyond cost savings to negligently endangering its citizens because this path is shaded and turns into sheer ice nearly every winter. Thousands are forced to walk down an ice-laden path if they want to get to the metro. Few cyclists ride through the winter because the route becomes impassable except to cyclists with studded tires.

For this reason, I request that you at least downgrade Arlington, VA’s status as a “bicycle friendly city”, if not eliminate its status entirely. To openly and repeatedly crow about being “pedestrian and bicycle friendly” while year-after-year neglecting such a rudimentary task as plowing critical bicycle and pedestrian routes is the height of hypocrisy. By its actions, Arlington reveals that the only vehicle that it is truly friendly to is the automobile. However, Arlington does seem to be proud of being able to put up signs saying that it is bicycle friendly. Perhaps if LAB were to remove Arlington’s status, Arlington will wake up to its responsibilities.

Ironically, the rise of big city government’s role in providing public goods in the U.S. was in part prompted by a major snowstorm in New York city in the 1800’s. Until that time, there was no organized system for handling snow removal. The public outcry was so great that New York city created the first organized system for snow removal. Apparently, Arlington doesn’t seem to have yet become aware that it is failing in this fundamental duty to its citizens.
Sincerely,

Nicholas Bull

[DismalScientist]

Gee, l always thought it was the responsibility of property owners to clear the sidewalks in front of their establishments. Furthermore, Key Blvd. provides bike lanes between the locations in question.

[lordofthemark]

1. Dave Patton was the FABB bike summit, and maybe I misheard, but I thought he said they were going to clear some trails (I presume Custis first)

2. Arlco, despite a positive cash balance, which is IIUC a cash management issue, is in fact facing various fiscal stresses due to reduced tax revenues associated with BRAC (which has left lots of vacant office space in the county) and federal cutbacks.

3. Arlington is rated as a Silver level biking community. I am not sure the snow clearing policies of other Silver rated communities. Clearly there are many factors that go into the ratings, and a Silver level community is not going to be perfect on each one. The notion that Arlington is not at all bike friendly looks very odd from the point of view of someone living in Fairfax County.

[peterw_diy]

@Greenbelt 68192 wrote:

Agree, I think just a 3 or 4 foot plow strip with a little ATV plow like they have for sidewalks would suffice.

Was the county going to treat the trails with ice-melting chemicals, or just plow them?

Plowing alone is good for those of use who ride studded tires in the winter, but I think for many folks, treating the surface is perhaps more important than plowing snow.

[NickBull]

@DismalScientist 68242 wrote:

Gee, l always thought it was the responsibility of property owners to clear the sidewalks in front of their establishments. Furthermore, Key Blvd. provides bike lanes between the locations in question.

Since my post is the only one I see that mentions locations, I’m assuming this is a response to it.

I don’t think the Custis Trail counts as the responsibility of the property owners, unless you’re referring to Arlington County’s responsibility.

Key Blvd stops at Rhodes St., it does not go down Rosslyn Hill.

Nick

[DismalScientist]

Scott become the eastern part of Key Blvd, which goes down to Nash in the heart of Rosslyn and has bike lanes.

The Marriott should be shoveling the sidewalk in front of the hotel, as should all the other apartment complexes up the hill, just as I have to shovel the sidewalk in front of my house, even though I don’t own that sidewalk. The rest of the Custis, W&OD and MVT are a different matter.

What I find interesting is that while the #7 bike friendly community, Madison, WI, does plow bike trails, they do not use chemicals to deice them (nor the neighborhood streets) to limit algae growth in the lakes. As a result, winter bike commuters recommend the use of studded tires. Plowing only works for big storm events and little ones will leave ice regardless. We should be happy here that, unlike Madison, we have the solar snowplow that does most of the work. For in Madison, the streets can remain ice-packed all winter.

[NickBull]

@DismalScientist 68248 wrote:

Scott become the eastern part of Key Blvd, which goes down to Nash in the heart of Rosslyn and has bike lanes.

The Marriott should be shoveling the sidewalk in front of the hotel, as should all the other apartment complexes up the hill, just as I have to shovel the sidewalk in front of my house, even though I don’t own that sidewalk. The rest of the Custis, W&OD and MVT are a different matter.

What I find interesting is that while the #7 bike friendly community, Madison, WI, does plow bike trails, they do not use chemicals to deice them (nor the neighborhood streets) to limit algae growth in the lakes. As a result, winter bike commuters recommend the use of studded tires. Plowing only works for big storm events and little ones will leave ice regardless. We should be happy here that, unlike Madison, we have the solar snowplow that does most of the work. For in Madison, the streets can remain ice-packed all winter.

You obviously haven’t tried to ride the Custis trail in the winter, if you think that the solar snowplow does much work. Behind the sound barrier, the trail gets little sunlight, and it can take weeks to melt.

As to Key Blvd, what is your on-road path from N. Rhodes St to Key Blvd? Either you have to go over to Lee Hwy or Wilson Blvd. Have you actually ridden this in the winter or are you just looking at Google Maps?

I’m fine with using studded tires. But when the snow is deeper than your axles, studded tires don’t do much good, you are not moving forward through snow that deep. Well, maybe if I had a Surly Moonlander: http://surlybikes.com/bikes/moonlander Studded tires are available for that bike, too, though they’re $150 apiece.

Studded tires don’t help pedestrians very much, though.

Nick

[jabberwocky]

Plowing helps a lot though. Clearing the snow down to the last 1/2″ or so means that even the shaded areas melt really quickly. Its not the “scrape down to pavement and then treat with salt” treatment that roads get, but I’d be delighted if they’d just run the plow down the W&OD with the blade held a little above pavement after snow events.

After the massive snowstorm in 2010, where we got like 30″ of snow, the W&OD was basically impassible for over a month. And then it was in terrible shape; exposed areas did melt off, but the chronically shaded areas were thick, rutted ice for weeks. They finally ran a plow down the trail (not scraping pavement, just removing the bulk of the buildup) and within a day or two the whole trail was clear.

[KLizotte]

@jabberwocky 68252 wrote:

Plowing helps a lot though. Clearing the snow down to the last 1/2″ or so means that even the shaded areas melt really quickly. Its not the “scrape down to pavement and then treat with salt” treatment that roads get, but I’d be delighted if they’d just run the plow down the W&OD with the blade held a little above pavement after snow events.

Whoever manages the Custis would probably have to smooth out the tree bumps in order to effectively plow. A win-win situation!

[DismalScientist]

@NickBull 68250 wrote:

You obviously haven’t tried to ride the Custis trail in the winter, if you think that the solar snowplow does much work. Behind the sound barrier, the trail gets little sunlight, and it can take weeks to melt.

As to Key Blvd, what is your on-road path from N. Rhodes St to Key Blvd? Either you have to go over to Lee Hwy or Wilson Blvd. Have you actually ridden this in the winter or are you just looking at Google Maps?

Nick

I think you are missing my point. I have no problem with the county plowing the trails. However, you picked a trail to complain about that 1) is a sidewalk and therefore should be cleared by property owners and 2) is a place with an adequate on-street alternative one block away.

I can assure you that I ride all winter and on the Custis, if appropriate. I try to avoid the Custis downhill in that area in both winter and otherwise as I view it as unsafe relative to on street routing. It is unsafe, in my opinion, because it is basically a sidewalk into Rosslyn. Generally, I will take Clarendon down the hill and take Lynn, thereby avoiding the intersection of doom. An alternative for those of fainter heart (and the answer to your alternative routing questions) is to take Key to Veitch, make a left, cross Lee Hwy, continue straight on 22nd (I think) and continue straight on Scott (again across Lee Hwy) and straight onto Key again to Nash.

Places like Arlington have a big problem with large snowfalls because they are rare and people are generally unaccustomed to dealing with snow. Arlington has adequately demonstrated that it cannot get neighborhood streets or public sidewalks plowed after large snowfalls. As a result schools are cancelled for long periods, etc. It just seems a little rich to suggest that Arlington lose its bicycle friendly status over this issue. As I pointed out, there are other bicycle friendly locations where trails remain ice covered in winter.

[peterw_diy]

Regarding Arlington’s silver status, I note that at least next year’s LAB Bike Friendly Community (SM) application (the draft version that’s online now, anyway) asks specifically about clearing snow from the off-street bicycle network; this is a separate question from clearing snow from bike lanes & shoulders of the on-street bike network. “Never” is one of the options.

[Tim Kelley]

And as an Arlington resident, did you send the same sentiments to your elected officials and the county government?

@NickBull 68241 wrote:

I just sent the following to Andy Clarke and the League of American Bicyclists:

Dear Andy Clarke and League of American Bicyclists,

Yet again, Arlington VA plans to fail to plow routes that are critical to bicycle-commuters and pedestrians alike. See email copied below. In particular, the only route from the top of Rosslyn Hill down to Key Bridge and also to the Rosslyn Metro is the shared sidewalk / Custis-trail-bikepath. Arlington’s neglect of plowing this critical route goes beyond cost savings to negligently endangering its citizens because this path is shaded and turns into sheer ice nearly every winter. Thousands are forced to walk down an ice-laden path if they want to get to the metro. Few cyclists ride through the winter because the route becomes impassable except to cyclists with studded tires.

For this reason, I request that you at least downgrade Arlington, VA’s status as a “bicycle friendly city”, if not eliminate its status entirely. To openly and repeatedly crow about being “pedestrian and bicycle friendly” while year-after-year neglecting such a rudimentary task as plowing critical bicycle and pedestrian routes is the height of hypocrisy. By its actions, Arlington reveals that the only vehicle that it is truly friendly to is the automobile. However, Arlington does seem to be proud of being able to put up signs saying that it is bicycle friendly. Perhaps if LAB were to remove Arlington’s status, Arlington will wake up to its responsibilities.

Ironically, the rise of big city government’s role in providing public goods in the U.S. was in part prompted by a major snowstorm in New York city in the 1800’s. Until that time, there was no organized system for handling snow removal. The public outcry was so great that New York city created the first organized system for snow removal. Apparently, Arlington doesn’t seem to have yet become aware that it is failing in this fundamental duty to its citizens.
Sincerely,

Nicholas Bull

[Author]

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