New (to me) commuting situation…passing a school bus

[Raymo853]

@wheels&wings 97470 wrote:

My morning commute regularly lands me behind stopped school buses. Unless the bus is preparing to move on, I regularly dismount and jog carefully with my bike around the bus in the road on the driver side. This works well and feels safe.

This seems ok to me.

[Phatboing]

@mstone 97464 wrote:

In all honesty, If it were my kid I’d wonder why the guy on the bike was stopped instead of proceeding cautiously. This is one of those cases where the letter of the law doesn’t reflect reality. Bikes aren’t cars; cyclists aren’t likely to crush a child while traveling at low speed, aren’t likely to pass dangerously close to the bus in order to squeeze past in-lane, and have better visibility of things close and to the front. The reasons that the law was enacted simply don’t apply to bikes. We don’t expect pedestrians to stop because of a nearby bus, either.

I tend to agree, and sometimes I sneak by, but a lot of the time I stop for schoolbuses to show drivers behind me that LOOK I’M LAW ABIDING DON’T KILL ME.

[vern]

@bobco85 97469 wrote:

This situation is the only time I will pass a school bus with its flashers/stop sign on. When the operator of the school bus signals to me that I may pass through, I will wave in thanks (this is visible to other people who may not have seen the driver’s signal to me) and proceed slowly and cautiously past. The rest of the time, I stop and wait. I have not been in a situation where I was in a rush, but would walk on the sidewalk as a last resort.

Yup, ditto for me. I always stop for school buses unless the driver waves me through, and I’ve only had that happen after the driver has pulled in his/her stop sign and turned off the blinkers.

[baiskeli]

@Phatboing 97481 wrote:

I tend to agree, and sometimes I sneak by, but a lot of the time I stop for schoolbuses to show drivers behind me that LOOK I’M LAW ABIDING DON’T KILL ME.

I was thinking the same thing – what a great way to show motorists what stopping for a bus actually means.

[mstone]

@jabberwocky 97474 wrote:

This. Honestly, I always stop, but its not really a safety thing for me, its just a “being a respectful road user” thing.

@Phatboing 97481 wrote:

I tend to agree, and sometimes I sneak by, but a lot of the time I stop for schoolbuses to show drivers behind me that LOOK I’M LAW ABIDING DON’T KILL ME.

In reality I’ve been known to awkwardly stand at a stopped bus for no particular reason as well. It’s not for the drivers (they can’t even see cyclists who aren’t breaking a law) or to show respect for something inane. I guess it’s out of some misplaced fear of social opprobrium (but they already hate me because I’m on a bike so why do I care?) or because passing the bus might spin someone up enough to result in a severe penalty (ZOMG! the children!). But if someone is standing there without feeling ridiculous about doing something so pointless, they may be suffering from scrupulosity.

[baiskeli]

@jabberwocky 97474 wrote:

This. Honestly, I always stop, but its not really a safety thing for me, its just a “being a respectful road user” thing. You’d have to be tremendously stupid to hit a kid on a bike. Visibility from the seat of a bike is, for all intents and purposes, perfect. We simply don’t have the visibility and girth issues that cars have.

Yet cyclists do hit pedestrians. In the case of a schoolbus, it’s not the stupidity of the cyclist, but the stupidity of kids (very high). They run to catch the bus, or whatever, without looking. They dash from around the bus toward the door. It would be easy to hit a kid on your bike; easier than in a normal situation.

[mstone]

@baiskeli 97507 wrote:

Yet cyclists do hit pedestrians. In the case of a schoolbus, it’s not the stupidity of the cyclist, but the stupidity of kids (very high). They run to catch the bus, or whatever, without looking. They dash from around the bus toward the door. It would be easy to hit a kid on your bike; easier than in a normal situation.

The question is whether it’s likely that a bike moving at low speed would kill said kid, or that the cyclist wouldn’t see the kid. (One of the big problems with cars passing the buses is that there’s essentially zero visibility because the car needs to be so close; a bike taking the lane has at least a couple feet from the side of the bus, and the cyclist’s head is positioned at the front of the bike rather than 4 feet back.) At least 5-10 kids per year have been killed getting off school buses every year for decades (I think it’s gotten better with all the stop laws, and it used to be worse.) Are there any documented cases of one of those kids being killed by a cyclist at a stopped school bus?

[baiskeli]

@mstone 97517 wrote:

The question is whether it’s likely that a bike moving at low speed would kill said kid, or that the cyclist wouldn’t see the kid. (One of the big problems with cars passing the buses is that there’s essentially zero visibility because the car needs to be so close; a bike taking the lane has at least a couple feet from the side of the bus, and the cyclist’s head is positioned at the front of the bike rather than 4 feet back.) At least 5-10 kids per year have been killed getting off school buses every year for decades (I think it’s gotten better with all the stop laws, and it used to be worse.) Are there any documented cases of one of those kids being killed by a cyclist at a stopped school bus?

Well, it’s not just about killing kids. You can injure a kid. A small child hit by an adult cyclist going, say, 10-15 mph could easily be injured enough to send them to the hospital if they score a direct hit. I think it’s better to not hit the kid rather than finding out how bad the injury is likely to be.

I agree that the impact of hitting a kid with a bike is likely to be low. My point was that it’s not impossible to hit a kid on a bike. A kid running to catch a bus coming from the other side of the bus could easily run right in front of a cyclist before he/she has time to react.

And hey, imagine the headline when a bike hits a kid getting on or off a bus while all the cars are stopped.

At a bus, one should either stop or just go really slow past the bus (which is what most of us probably do anyway).

[jabberwocky]

@baiskeli 97507 wrote:

Yet cyclists do hit pedestrians. In the case of a schoolbus, it’s not the stupidity of the cyclist, but the stupidity of kids (very high). They run to catch the bus, or whatever, without looking. They dash from around the bus toward the door. It would be easy to hit a kid on your bike; easier than in a normal situation.

Well, its situational. Most of the roads I ride with bus stops are pretty wide. I’d be several feet minimum from any bus while passing, which is plenty of space to see and avoid a kid even if they darted out in front of me as long as speed is reasonable.

Like I said, I stop for buses loading kids regardless, just so people see me being a responsible road user. I’ve had parents smile and thank me on several occasions (a few have remarked that they are surprised I stopped). I do agree with mstone that the law is written more for cars than cyclists though.

[Steve O]

If I’m on the opposite side of the road from the loading side, I’m generally tempted to go up on the sidewalk and ride by at a reasonable speed. I think that would be totally legal in places where riding on the sidewalk is legal. After all, if I were a pedestrian, I could just walk by the bus; why would it be different as a bicycle on the sidewalk?
Either that, or I wait for an indication from the driver as others have suggested.

When I am traveling behind the bus in the same direction, I always wait.

[mstone]

@baiskeli 97520 wrote:

Well, it’s not just about killing kids. You can injure a kid. A small child hit by an adult cyclist going, say, 10-15 mph could easily be injured enough to send them to the hospital if they score a direct hit. I think it’s better to not hit the kid rather than finding out how bad the injury is likely to be.

I agree that the impact of hitting a kid with a bike is likely to be low. My point was that it’s not impossible to hit a kid on a bike. A kid running to catch a bus coming from the other side of the bus could easily run right in front of a cyclist before he/she has time to react.[/quote]

Sure, it’s possible to hit a kid, just as it’s possible to hit an adult or a rock, but that isn’t why there was a push for mandatory stops with special penalties: the motivation was the hundreds of kids actually killed by motorists when they were getting on or off school buses, not the (zero?) kids who might have been hospitalized by cyclists specifically while getting on or off of school buses. For darn sure a cyclist should be careful in the presence or likely presence of pedestrians, and should slow down and pay extra attention. But that’s always the case, and it isn’t clear why stopped buses (only schoolbuses; we don’t care about killing adults or kids using regular buses) should be a special case for cyclists.

[runbike]

@Steve O 97534 wrote:

If I’m on the opposite side of the road from the loading side, I’m generally tempted to go up on the sidewalk and ride by at a reasonable speed. I think that would be totally legal in places where riding on the sidewalk is legal. After all, if I were a pedestrian, I could just walk by the bus; why would it be different as a bicycle on the sidewalk?
Either that, or I wait for an indication from the driver as others have suggested.

When I am traveling behind the bus in the same direction, I always wait.

This exact scenario happened to me on my commute this evening. It was raining and the bus was full so I dismounted, walked over to the sidewalk, and proceeded past the bus on the opposite side of the road. A good 4 car lengths later I hopped back on and was on my way. No danger to anyone.

Having the ability to magically transform from cyclist to pedestrian is pretty neat [emoji4]

[baiskeli]

@mstone 97539 wrote:

Sure, it’s possible to hit a kid, just as it’s possible to hit an adult or a rock, but that isn’t why there was a push for mandatory stops with special penalties: the motivation was the hundreds of kids actually killed by motorists when they were getting on or off school buses, not the (zero?) kids who might have been hospitalized by cyclists specifically while getting on or off of school buses.

Sure, but this discussion isn’t about whether we should have mandatory stops, it’s about what you or I should actually do when we encounter a schoolbus picking up kids. My motivation isn’t to avoid killing a child, since that’s unlikely, but I am motivated by avoiding injury to a child, not to mention the scorn of everyone who saw me ignore a legal requirement to stop and hit a kid.

For darn sure a cyclist should be careful in the presence or likely presence of pedestrians, and should slow down and pay extra attention. But that’s always the case, and it isn’t clear why stopped buses (only schoolbuses; we don’t care about killing adults or kids using regular buses) should be a special case for cyclists.

I wouldn’t say it’s a special case for cyclists either. You’re right, we really don’t need to make a full stop like cars do, just creep past carefully.

[AFHokie]

@baiskeli 97570 wrote:

Sure, but this discussion isn’t about whether we should have mandatory stops, it’s about what you or I should actually do when we encounter a schoolbus picking up kids. My motivation isn’t to avoid killing a child, since that’s unlikely, but I am motivated by avoiding injury to a child, not to mention the scorn of everyone who saw me ignore a legal requirement to stop and hit a kid.

We’re legally required to hit kids? Is that new legislation from the Get Off My Lawn party?

[baiskeli]

@AFHokie 97576 wrote:

We’re legally required to hit kids? Is that new legislation from the Get Off My Lawn party?

Whoops. What I meant to say is you’re legally required to hit a kid while moving. If you stop, you can’t hit the kid. Clear now?

[Author]

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