New (to me) commuting situation…passing a school bus

[mstone]

@DismalScientist 21803 wrote:

This is a lot like the issue of running red lights when the coast is clear. The standard argument is that because it is safe, bicyclist should can just do it. Of course, a driver could also check cross traffic and run the light because it would also be safe. The argument that a bicyclist should be able to run reds reduces to “because we can,” with the danger that drivers would develop the same attitude.

Looking around and slowly moving from a stop on a bike is simply not the same as looking around and slowly moving from a stop in a car. I’m much less likely to miss something on the bike (less visual obstructions, and much better ability to hear surroundings) and even if I were to obliviously run into a pedestrian while starting my bike, I’m extremely unlikely to kill them (even if I were to completely run over them–I’m just not that heavy, and I’d be hard pressed to muster that much torque anyway). This “same rules should apply” meme is a crock until they start making 2000 pound bikes that start moving when you take a foot off a pedal.

[5555624]

@ShawnoftheDread 21832 wrote:

Why not dismount and walk on the sidewalk with the deboarding kids until you pass the bus?

Because the sidewalk is full of kids and whomever is meeting them. (This stop is at an intersection and surrounded by apartment buildings.) I’m not complaining. Sure, I’d rather get through there before the bus and not have to wait, but I have no problem obeying the law and stopping.

[Megabeth]

When I go through Key Boulevard in the mornings, it’s rather nice to stop behind the bus and get waved at by the kids in the back of the bus. Then, when I face a bus head-on that’s stopped in the other lane, it’s rather nice to get waved at by the bus driver in appreciation for stopping. I hope I’m setting a good example…

I’m amazed at how many cars will fly through a stop sign and navigate a traffic circle in front of a stopped and loading school bus. Kids are slippery and can appear out of no where. I wouldn’t take the chance.

(On another note, I’m also amazed at all the cars running and idling at the bus stop every day with their kid inside while other kids are standing outside in the elements. I understand if you have a science project or something you don’t want to get wet on the rainy days…but every day when you only live a block away from the stop? But, that’s another discussion for another day, I suppose.)

[txgoonie]

I answered the question for myself by asking, “what if my kid were out there?” I don’t have kids, btw, but I imagine I might be rather displeased with a cyclist, non-threatening looking or not, who couldn’t wait a hot second for the bus and kids to do their thing. I sympathize with losing one’s momentum on Military, me of the can’t-start-on-an-incline tribe. That sucks. And this might be a personal thing, but I wouldn’t lump this situation in with the other “gray area” violations that can be justified with “because it’s safe.” We rail on drivers for the things they do due to impatience, for dangerous moves that save 30 seconds. We ought to remember the real impact/inconvenience of actually following the rules, too.

[5555624]

@consularrider 21839 wrote:

However, before the 4 Mile Run extension under I-365 opened, I often had to endure multiple bus dropoffs at a the Barrett Elementary School just about every morning. Since I stop for a school bus with it’s red flashers on and stop signs extended, I eventually figured out that the best way around this back up was to become a true pedestrian and walked my bike on the sidewalk there (it’s across the Martha Custis/Valley Dr intersection from the school). It meant adding all of 30 seconds rather than several minutes.

I’m glad you put the streets in there, because I could not figure out why the 4 Mile Run extension would make any difference. I was thinking of K.W. Barrett Elementary School in Arlington (N George Mason Dr & N Henderson Rd) and not the Charles Barrett School in Alexandria.

[PotomacCyclist]

I would stop. Children are unpredictable. They decide to run off suddenly at the drop of a hat. This is why I always slow-roll all the way through Gravelly Point when it’s crowded. Even if I can ride faster, I know that a young child is likely to come running in at any moment.

After the bus starts moving again, I would try to pass it legally. If that’s not possible, maybe turn off onto a side street and see if you can pull ahead of the bus that way. Then move back over to the other street, hopefully in front of the bus.

[brendan]

@consularrider 21839 wrote:

However, before the 4 Mile Run extension under I-365 opened, I often had to endure multiple bus dropoffs at a the Barrett Elementary School just about every morning. Since I stop for a school bus with it’s red flashers on and stop signs extended, I eventually figured out that the best way around this back up was to become a true pedestrian and walked my bike on the sidewalk there (it’s across the Martha Custis/Valley Dr intersection from the school). It meant adding all of 30 seconds rather than several minutes.

Heh, that was my elementary school. But don’t blame me, I lived close enough to walk to school.

Brendan

PS – also, that was 30 years ago…

[Rockford10]

This morning, a school bus stopped on the other side of the street from me and put on its flashers and stop sign. I stopped. The driver started knocking on his window and waved me past, while he was stopped. It was a little odd. Like, really? I’m trying to be a law-abiding cyclist.

[americancyclo]

@txgoonie 21863 wrote:

I answered the question for myself by asking, “what if my kid were out there?” I don’t have kids, btw, but I imagine I might be rather displeased with a cyclist, non-threatening looking or not, who couldn’t wait a hot second for the bus and kids to do their thing.

Same boat for me, but I thought about it as a parent standing there with child. What if a forum member I know and like didn’t stop while my daughter was crossing the road?

Or if I was the cyclist and almost hit the child of someone I know here.

Either one would feel terrible, so I stop.

[rcannon100]

Cyclists are suppose to stop. Cyclists pose a risk to children as well.

I have hit several traffic situations where “polite” drivers try to wave me through in a way that is inconsistent with traffic law and right of way – creating a dangerous situation. I shake my head “no.” And its not uncommon for the drivers to get mad. But like you say, I am trying to be a law-abiding —- oh forget that — but I am trying to be a safe cyclist.

[Raymo853]

There is no discussion on this, you must 100% stop and wait. No creeping by or anything, no wiggle room like I see with traffic lights. Yes you may be safe and the kids safe by you going by at near stall speed, but the same argument could be said a driver in a car.

[mstone]

In all honesty, If it were my kid I’d wonder why the guy on the bike was stopped instead of proceeding cautiously. This is one of those cases where the letter of the law doesn’t reflect reality. Bikes aren’t cars; cyclists aren’t likely to crush a child while traveling at low speed, aren’t likely to pass dangerously close to the bus in order to squeeze past in-lane, and have better visibility of things close and to the front. The reasons that the law was enacted simply don’t apply to bikes. We don’t expect pedestrians to stop because of a nearby bus, either.

[bobco85]

@Rockford10 97454 wrote:

This morning, a school bus stopped on the other side of the street from me and put on its flashers and stop sign. I stopped. The driver started knocking on his window and waved me past, while he was stopped. It was a little odd. Like, really? I’m trying to be a law-abiding cyclist.

This situation is the only time I will pass a school bus with its flashers/stop sign on. When the operator of the school bus signals to me that I may pass through, I will wave in thanks (this is visible to other people who may not have seen the driver’s signal to me) and proceed slowly and cautiously past. The rest of the time, I stop and wait. I have not been in a situation where I was in a rush, but would walk on the sidewalk as a last resort.

[wheelswings]

My morning commute regularly lands me behind stopped school buses. Unless the bus is preparing to move on, I regularly dismount and jog carefully with my bike around the bus in the road on the driver side. This works well and feels safe.

[jabberwocky]

@mstone 97464 wrote:

In all honesty, If it were my kid I’d wonder why the guy on the bike was stopped instead of proceeding cautiously. This is one of those cases where the letter of the law doesn’t reflect reality. Bikes aren’t cars; cyclists aren’t likely to crush a child while traveling at low speed, aren’t likely to pass dangerously close to the bus in order to squeeze past in-lane, and have better visibility of things close and to the front. The reasons that the law was enacted simply don’t apply to bikes. We don’t expect pedestrians to stop because of a nearby bus, either.

This. Honestly, I always stop, but its not really a safety thing for me, its just a “being a respectful road user” thing. You’d have to be tremendously stupid to hit a kid on a bike. Visibility from the seat of a bike is, for all intents and purposes, perfect. We simply don’t have the visibility and girth issues that cars have.

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