New (to me) commuting situation…passing a school bus

[jrenaut]

The law is the law. Doesn’t sound like you were doing anything unsafe, but I always worry about the moron who might be behind me, see what I did, and assume that he can do the same at 25mph.

[creadinger]

I had similar experience on my old commute from Silver Spring to Bethesda. I can’t remember where exactly it was, but maybe half a dozen times I would come across a school bus with lights flashing.

As Jrenaut said, the law is the law so I wouldn’t fight it if a cop pulled me over or the busdriver or a parent reported me, but I would creep up at 3-5 mph, looking left and right all the time and then once I was past the bus eventually speed up again. I think one key for this is making yourself look very non-threathening. I think most reasonable people know that while you should stop, a bike going 3 mph can stop immediately and has very little potential to actually hurt anyone.

[DismalScientist]

This is a lot like the issue of running red lights when the coast is clear. The standard argument is that because it is safe, bicyclist should can just do it. Of course, a driver could also check cross traffic and run the light because it would also be safe. The argument that a bicyclist should be able to run reds reduces to “because we can,” with the danger that drivers would develop the same attitude.

For passing a school bus, I would come to a full stop. If no one is crossing the street, it is obviously perfectly safe to start up again. Of course, this would likely be true for a car as well. Of course, a kid could suddenly dart into the street, so I suppose it would be safer for a bicyclist to pass after stopping than a car. I guess the bottom line is that I would likely pass the school bus after stopping, even though this contradicts my position that it is inappropriate to ride against a red light after stopping. Oh well, so much for consistency.

[jrenaut]

I think it goes back to the “group think” (or group-not-think) discussed in the jaywalking thread. If one person disobeys the traffic signal or school bus signal or whatever, there is a good chance the person behind will follow blindly. The one in front might check and make sure it’s clear, but the 2nd or 3rd in line may not.

This is why I always stop and yell at drivers at 15th and PA who turn left from PA when the bike signal goes green and the cars still have a red light. When one goes, they all go, and that’s how cyclists get run over.

[rcannon100]

Oh yes please stop.

Yes, this goes back to the jaywalking thread. But in this case we are talking about children from a very young age to teenagers (and I am not sure which are dumber (I have two teenagers)). Small critters will do the most erratic, unpredictable things. Everyone where a bus stops needs to stop. Those kids are my neighbors.

I think a slow roll up to the stopped bus area isnt a problem, just once you get to that stopped bus, if its still flashing – then “None Shall Pass.”

[KS1G]

Regular commuting means I deal with the same bus routes, kids, drivers(?) fairly often. I may encounter up to 3 school busses (lucky me!). General rule: SLOWLY move up along stopped cars until I reach the bus, then behave like a car (while trying to avoide inhaling bus exhaust!) until the bus turns off lights and proceeds. Under NO circumstances pass the bus while the stop lights are on – I have seen teens (middle & hs bus routes) run for the bus while oblivious to all else. Virginia code is quite clear on this – go read the rules for passing school buses and the one defining a bicycle as a vehicle. If you get caught behind the same bus for several stops, use the opportunity for sprint interval training

At one bus stop (busiest of the 3), I stay further back where I can be in or easily merge into the line of cars – the bus driver sometimes stays pulled off to the right and waves the traffic past.

This becomes mostly moot for ~10 weeks after 6/22 (Arlington County school calendar) and 6/15 for Fairfax County.

[vvill]

I always treat myself as any other road vehicle when near a school bus. One time the driver emphatically encouraged me to go around because I was waiting on my bike and said I didn’t need to wait.

[jabberwocky]

You’re supposed to stop. I admit that there are a few situations where I’ll hop on the sidewalk and ride past though (there are a few places in Reston where the bus loads like 50 kids and it takes 5 minutes, and they are all loading on the other side of the road from me).

A pet peeve of mine is when buses pass me on the left and then immediately cut in front of me and put their lights on. I don’t stop for them.

[GuyContinental]

I’m not exactly the paragon traffic law compliance (but I’m not bad, I promise!) but one place where I really try to toss/limit the scofflawry is with kids. I’m not actually that worried about hitting anyone (although they do pop out of no-where), what I am worried about is setting a bad example. Usually this happens at lights- if I see a kid patiently and dutifully waiting for the cross signal I feel that it’s bad form to run the light even on some that I’ll usually scoot through (Gallows). I figure that when I’m all kitted out to them I probably look like a “serious rider”or at the very least an adult… do what I do, not what I say and all that…

This is on the list of things that may not have occurred to me before I was a dad…

[jrenaut]

@GuyContinental 21823 wrote:

This is on the list of things that may not have occurred to me before I was a dad…

After watching a guy biking on the sidewalk in front of my house come to a hard stop to avoid my daughter as she ran out onto the sidewalk from between houses, I know exactly what you mean.

[5555624]

@vvill 21815 wrote:

I always treat myself as any other road vehicle when near a school bus. One time the driver emphatically encouraged me to go around because I was waiting on my bike and said I didn’t need to wait.

Exactly. You’re on the road, you’re a vehicle. My afternoon commute is often a race to avoid the Never-ending Bus From Hell. (I’m sure there are more than 100 kids on it!) Most of the time, I’m about two minutes in front of it but I’ve literally been racing down the street trying to keep it from passing me, because if it makes the upcoming stop, I’ll be stuck for 5-6 minutes or more. (Yes, I’ve timed it.)

[ShawnoftheDread]

@5555624 21831 wrote:

Exactly. You’re on the road, you’re a vehicle. My afternoon commute is often a race to avoid the Never-ending Bus From Hell. (I’m sure there are more than 100 kids on it!) Most of the time, I’m about two minutes in front of it but I’ve literally been racing down the street trying to keep it from passing me, because if it makes the upcoming stop, I’ll be stuck for 5-6 minutes or more. (Yes, I’ve timed it.)

Why not dismount and walk on the sidewalk with the deboarding kids until you pass the bus?

[dasgeh]

@jabberwocky 21819 wrote:

You’re supposed to stop. I admit that there are a few situations where I’ll hop on the sidewalk and ride past though (there are a few places in Reston where the bus loads like 50 kids and it takes 5 minutes, and they are all loading on the other side of the road from me).

I also read the law to say that if a cyclist hops onto the sidewalk, thereby ceasing to be a vehicle, the legal responsibility to stop goes away. Not that it’s always/often a good idea, but there are times when it might be. (Like when seeing the bus in my old neighborhood meant I might be too late to catch the Henry Gate, and I could jump on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the street from the kids).

[jabberwocky]

@dasgeh 21834 wrote:

I also read the law to say that if a cyclist hops onto the sidewalk, thereby ceasing to be a vehicle, the legal responsibility to stop goes away. Not that it’s always/often a good idea, but there are times when it might be. (Like when seeing the bus in my old neighborhood meant I might be too late to catch the Henry Gate, and I could jump on the sidewalk on the opposite side of the street from the kids).

Thats my understanding. I do note that I’ll only do so if the bus and loading kids are on the opposite side from me (I’m not going to ride through a group of loading kids to get past the bus). Most of the time I just take the lane and wait like any other vehicle.

[consularrider]

@ShawnoftheDread 21832 wrote:

Why not dismount and walk on the sidewalk with the deboarding kids until you pass the bus?

I go by many school bus stops when I’m doing various versions of my extended morning commute. I’ve just about learned the times for these stops just as the school year is ending (), so I try to time my ride to avoid when the bus is making the pick-ups. Since this is bonus milage, my route and timing can be more flexible. If I am on my direct morning commute, I’m just about only on the Custis, so there are no bus stops. My evening commute is late enough that I don’t encounter bus drop offs in the neighborhoods.

However, before the 4 Mile Run extension under I-365 opened, I often had to endure multiple bus dropoffs at a the Barrett Elementary School just about every morning. Since I stop for a school bus with it’s red flashers on and stop signs extended, I eventually figured out that the best way around this back up was to become a true pedestrian and walked my bike on the sidewalk there (it’s across the Martha Custis/Valley Dr intersection from the school). It meant adding all of 30 seconds rather than several minutes.

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