New bike lane markings on Pershing from Washington to Arlington Blvd

[lordofthemark]

@dasgeh 182242 wrote:

Trashcans are just something residents need to figure out. I have a friend who lives on the Veitch PBL and she said it took 2-3 trash days for folks to get used to the change.

On the east side of King between Cedar and Janneys the residents put their trash bins in the bike lane on Tuesday nights, that was part of the deal when the bike lanes were installed, and you just have to remember the schedule and plan your route accordingly.

[VikingMariner]

@Brendan von Buckingham 182195 wrote:

The 5 block stretch of Pershing from Washington Boulevard to Arlington Boulevard has been restriped for bike lanes at the curb and a buffer of parked cars. This is the sort of infrastructure that does not improve cycling conditions. This stretch of roadway was generously wide with ample room for a median, cars, bikes, a door-zone and parked cars. Now cyclists are encouraged to take a narrow lane full of gutter clutter that zig-zags and peek-a-boos with drivers at multiple curb cuts and driveways. And the worst part of this section of roadway (crossing Arlington Boulevard westbound from the bus shelter corner) is still unimproved.

Agree! Same on Wilson Blvd climbing up the hill into Courthouse. No room to maneuver now when someone opens a passenger side door. Almost got hit several times since the new installation as those doors can completely block the path. Drivers have also started parking partially into the bike lane. J-walking pedestrians are also difficult to see and reaction time for hard braking is reduced with no room to maneuver around. Good intentions for sure with the new design but it was not carefully thought out. The design also forces you to ride through debris that the County does not clean up, increasing the risk of flats. I’m taking other routes now that decrease the probability of flats and car doors smacking me down.

[Judd]

My favorite thing about biking is being ticked off because the county won’t put in protected bike lanes and also being ticked off when they put in protected bike lanes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dasgeh]

@VikingMariner 182393 wrote:

Agree! Same on Wilson Blvd climbing up the hill into Courthouse. No room to maneuver now when someone opens a passenger side door. Almost got hit several times since the new installation as those doors can completely block the path. Drivers have also started parking partially into the bike lane. J-walking pedestrians are also difficult to see and reaction time for hard braking is reduced with no room to maneuver around. Good intentions for sure with the new design but it was not carefully thought out. The design also forces you to ride through debris that the County does not clean up, increasing the risk of flats. I’m taking other routes now that decrease the probability of flats and car doors smacking me down.

If a passenger side door can open in the bike lane, either the buffer area is too narrow, or the cars are parking incorrectly. I don’t head through there daily, but if those who do could report back, we can pass the note along to staff. Both are fixable. FWIW, I LOVE the PBL on Veitch. More parents are biking kids to school at Key because of it.

[DismalScientist]

@Judd 182401 wrote:

My favorite thing about biking is being ticked off because the county won’t put in protected bike lanes and also being ticked off when they put in protected bike lanes.

I’m pretty sure that these are two separate groups of cyclists being ticked off.

[LhasaCM]

@dasgeh 182405 wrote:

If a passenger side door can open in the bike lane, either the buffer area is too narrow, or the cars are parking incorrectly. I don’t head through there daily, but if those who do could report back, we can pass the note along to staff. Both are fixable. FWIW, I LOVE the PBL on Veitch. More parents are biking kids to school at Key because of it.

In my (limited) experience – there’s a bit of both. See attached for an example.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18542[/ATTACH]

It’s a pretty small buffer to begin with. Because the protection/flexposts are in the middle of the buffer, some cars (like this one) pull up to the flexpost rather than to the paint. The few times I’ve been through there, that’s how many of the cars are parked. Doing that shrinks the buffer. Also, because of the gutter on the right, the bike lane feels smaller than it is on paper (because you don’t want to ride to the right of the seam). As a result, the natural tendency is to err on the side of the cars, which further shrinks the buffer in practice.

[lordofthemark]

I’ve only ridden through a couple of times since the PBLs were in place, but have ridden that corridor several times before then (obviously not as much as many people here). I find the PBL at least as comfortable as riding in the conventional bike lanes (that particular spot before, and the rest of the corridor now) There is as much or more door opening on the driver side as the passenger side, and in addition there are cars crossing the conventional bike lane to park and cars stopping to drop people off, etc. Now yeah, in theory you can ride around any of those things, and I have done so. But its not comfortable, and I think it’s objectively risky. Swerving into a general travel lane is NOT the same as riding in the general travel lane. It may be easier for people riding faster (?) and at the same time, stopping for a pedestrian entering the bike lane is probably more difficult.

[LhasaCM]

@lordofthemark 182415 wrote:

I’ve only ridden through a couple of times since the PBLs were in place, but have ridden that corridor several times before then (obviously not as much as many people here). I find the PBL at least as comfortable as riding in the conventional bike lanes (that particular spot before, and the rest of the corridor now) There is as much or more door opening on the driver side as the passenger side, and in addition there are cars crossing the conventional bike lane to park and cars stopping to drop people off, etc. Now yeah, in theory you can ride around any of those things, and I have done so. But its not comfortable, and I think it’s objectively risky. Swerving into a general travel lane is NOT the same as riding in the general travel lane. It may be easier for people riding faster (?) and at the same time, stopping for a pedestrian entering the bike lane is probably more difficult.

Agreed – what is there now is much better than what was there before. Design could use a few tweaks to make sure the buffer is properly respected, but that shouldn’t take away from the improvement this represents. (Should’ve included this thought with the earlier post.)

[dasgeh]

@LhasaCM 182416 wrote:

Agreed – what is there now is much better than what was there before. Design could use a few tweaks to make sure the buffer is properly respected, but that shouldn’t take away from the improvement this represents. (Should’ve included this thought with the earlier post.)

Also, this seems like a flyer campaign (to hit the regulars) and a sign by the pay to park thing (to hit the occasional parkers) should go a long way towards fixing this.

[Judd]

@LhasaCM 182414 wrote:

In my (limited) experience – there’s a bit of both. See attached for an example.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18542[/ATTACH]

It’s a pretty small buffer to begin with. Because the protection/flexposts are in the middle of the buffer, some cars (like this one) pull up to the flexpost rather than to the paint. The few times I’ve been through there, that’s how many of the cars are parked. Doing that shrinks the buffer. Also, because of the gutter on the right, the bike lane feels smaller than it is on paper (because you don’t want to ride to the right of the seam). As a result, the natural tendency is to err on the side of the cars, which further shrinks the buffer in practice.

This looks like a picture of the part that’s of substandard width (less than 5 feet wide. It feels narrow even when there’s not cars there, because in addition to the gutter pan, it’s narrow.

[LhasaCM]

@Judd 182425 wrote:

This looks like a picture of the part that’s of substandard width (less than 5 feet wide. It feels narrow even when there’s not cars there, because in addition to the gutter pan, it’s narrow.

Good point. That was the part between Troy and Courthouse. Here’s a screengrab from the same trip of the PBL on Veitch just north of Wilson.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18544[/ATTACH]

And Veitch just north of Key.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18545[/ATTACH]

Both felt (and from looking at the video actually appear to be) wider than that part of Wilson.

[zsionakides]

These seem like places where a more solid buffer such as planters would work better than flex posts. That would encourage care when a passenger in the car is opening their door since they wouldn’t want to bang it and scratch it up.

My gut is that the PBLs are better for slower riders that don’t want to interact with general traffic, and the serious injury risk is lower since a dooring incident doesn’t push them into traffic with the risk of being run over by another car. For faster riders who are more comfortable in general purpose lanes this probably isn’t much of an enhancement, if any.

[dasgeh]

@zsionakides 182438 wrote:

My gut is that the PBLs are better for slower riders that don’t want to interact with general traffic, and the serious injury risk is lower since a dooring incident doesn’t push them into traffic with the risk of being run over by another car. For faster riders who are more comfortable in general purpose lanes this probably isn’t much of an enhancement, if any.

*ding ding ding* The thing is, there are more people in the latter group, than the former, and the former can always just ride in the road.

[DismalScientist]

@dasgeh 182468 wrote:

*ding ding ding* The thing is, there are more people in the latter group, than the former, and the former can always just ride in the road.

As I’ve said repeatedly, now the general travel lanes are narrower and do not support cars passing without having to leave the lane. This makes taking the lane less safe than before. Further, it gives the impression to drivers that bicyclists are scofflaws by not taking an allegedly good PBL right next to the general travel lane, not that this is illegal. I don’t like being told by drivers to take the bike lane when I considered more dangerous. This has happened many times and, frankly, I don’t think it is good for driver/cyclist relations..

[dasgeh]

@DismalScientist 182477 wrote:

As I’ve said repeatedly, now the general travel lanes are narrower and do not support cars passing without having to leave the lane. This makes taking the lane less safe than before. Further, it gives the impression to drivers that bicyclists are scofflaws by not taking an allegedly good PBL right next to the general travel lane, not that this is illegal. I don’t like being told by drivers to take the bike lane when I considered more dangerous. This has happened many times and, frankly, I don’t think it is good for driver/cyclist relations..

As I’ve said before, with the 3 foot passing law, it’s not possible for a car to legally pass a bike without leaving the lane unless the lane is >12′ wide. There are few of those in Arlington. Thus, riding in the lane should be no different than before. Drivers who don’t know the law think cyclists are scofflaws for all sorts of things. The existence of a PBL doesn’t change that. I’ve been told to take the sidewalk, to go far out of my way to take the trail, to do any number of other things that are not legally required. Stupid drivers are not good for driver/cyclist relations. Enabling more people to bike is good for people relations, as people who bike tend to realize that “cyclists” are just people on a bike, even when behind the wheel of a car.

Note: most people refer to “taking the lane” as riding in the lane in such a way to make it clear a car needs to move into another lane to pass.

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