N+1? Do I need one? I want one…

[ginacico]

@Sunyata 139446 wrote:

If you want to go bike packing, I highly suggest the Salsa Deadwood.

Or, if you want the option of mounting racks for panniers, check out the Salsa Vaya. It’s capable for road touring (and makes a great commuter), but often gets tossed in the adventure/gravel category.

Vaya is THE most comfortable bike I’ve ever ridden. I think it’s all about the geometry, and somewhat due to the big (40mm) cushy tires. I’m even tempted to choose it over my road bike for long distance rides this year. I’ll strip off the rack and fenders and find skinnier tires to reduce the weight.

It doesn’t make me faster, it just gives me confidence on any terrain and lets me ride all dang day in happiness. More time in the saddle equates to more endurance and speed.

Get the bike you want to ride.

[GovernorSilver]

I tried a mix of adventure/gravel bikes and CX bikes, all in the 2015-2016 model year range at places like Bikenetic and Proteus. Each shop took the time to make sure the saddle was right, the tires were good, etc. on each bike before i took it on a ride.

I personally found that there was indeed a difference between CX and gravel/adventure bikes made in 2015 or later. The CX bikes tended to put me in a more aggressive forward lean – it’s like they were created specifically for CX racing. The adventure bikes, not so much.

The Kona Private Jake in particular had an aggressive geometry.

YMMV of course.

[hozn]

@GovernorSilver 139452 wrote:

I personally found that there was indeed a difference between CX and gravel/adventure bikes made in 2015 or later. The CX bikes tended to put me in a more aggressive forward lean – it’s like they were created specifically for CX racing. The adventure bikes, not so much.

This is just how they were setup. The differences in frame geometry don’t make one frame more aggressive in that way (though some frames may support a more aggressive position). While the headtube length is greater on the Warbird than the JTS, for example (210mm vs. 185mm for size 60/61), this just means you need 25mm of additional spacers under stem for the JTS. HTA is a factor, but the HT length is a bigger factor, as can be seen in the very different reach numbers for the different size frames: the reach for the 60cm Warbird frame is just slightly longer like the reach for the 56cm JTS, to give some perspective.

OTOH, while a 185mm HT can be made into a 210mm HT with spacers, you cannot easily go the other way. So if you wanted a more aggressive position, you’d might struggle to make that happen (-17º stem) on the Warbird. Probably not really a significant consideration in this case.

(I recognize that a shop isn’t going to swap out the stem/spacers/etc., but that would be part of a bike fitting — or part of just getting out the hex wrench at home.)

[rcannon100]

@hozn 139454 wrote:

This is just how they were setup. The differences in frame geometry don’t make one frame more aggressive in that way (though some frames may support a more aggressive position). While the headtube length is greater on the Warbird than the JTS, for example (210mm vs. 185mm for size 60/61), this just means you need 25mm of additional spacers under stem for the JTS. HTA is a factor, but the HT length is a bigger factor, as can be seen in the very different reach numbers for the different size frames: the reach for the 60cm Warbird frame is just slightly longer like the reach for the 56cm JTS, to give some perspective.

OTOH, while a 185mm HT can be made into a 210mm HT with spacers, you cannot easily go the other way. So if you wanted a more aggressive position, you’d might struggle to make that happen (-17º stem) on the Warbird. Probably not really a significant consideration in this case.

(I recognize that a shop isn’t going to swap out the stem/spacers/etc., but that would be part of a bike fitting — or part of just getting out the hex wrench at home.)

Why would I rebuild my bike every time I want to go on different rides. Arent you in fact agreeing that different bikes will have very different feels – that if one wants a bicycle for long rides and different bike configuration will make a difference over a bike that is configured for racing??

Faster

The key here is endurance. I dont care about faster. I am more looking to extend my range – go on longer rides. Where extended range means GAP trail, not road.

get an endurance road bike

Like? Name names!

Kona Roadhouse is moving toward the “road” end of the spectrum

That sounds like a good thing.

BTW thanks. Reading and re-reading comments.

[GovernorSilver]

@hozn 139454 wrote:

This is just how they were setup. The differences in frame geometry don’t make one frame more aggressive in that way (though some frames may support a more aggressive position). While the headtube length is greater on the Warbird than the JTS, for example (210mm vs. 185mm for size 60/61), this just means you need 25mm of additional spacers under stem for the JTS. HTA is a factor, but the HT length is a bigger factor, as can be seen in the very different reach numbers for the different size frames: the reach for the 60cm Warbird frame is just slightly longer like the reach for the 56cm JTS, to give some perspective.

OTOH, while a 185mm HT can be made into a 210mm HT with spacers, you cannot easily go the other way. So if you wanted a more aggressive position, you’d might struggle to make that happen (-17º stem) on the Warbird. Probably not really a significant consideration in this case.

(I recognize that a shop isn’t going to swap out the stem/spacers/etc., but that would be part of a bike fitting — or part of just getting out the hex wrench at home.)

Yeah I think the shops set up the specific models of bikes for the types of rider that they think are going to buy them. Both shops though, just for fun, let me try at least one bike “out of type”. I told them I wanted a fun bike to ride on 13- mile commutes so they mostly set me up with gravel/adventure road bikes. Proteus’ wildcard of choice for me was the Private Jake – a bit racier than the others and definitely a lot more fun than I expected – it’s just that I knew I wouldn’t want to ride that position for an entire commute.

[bentbike33]

@mstone 139426 wrote:

I wish that the manufacturers would have the balls to sell a category that didn’t involve racing, but they’re too invested in aspirational marketing to be that clear. (Some might argue that “bikes for middle aged folks who want to be comfortable and carry a little bit of a load for a reasonable distance and have zero interest in racing” isn’t sexy enough, but I’d love not having to guess where they filed that bike this year.)

Such bikes are filed under “R” as in recumbent:

1. comfortable ==> Like sitting in a recliner;

2. carry a little bit of a load for a reasonable distance ==> rack mounts generally standard and as for distance, see 1. above;

3. zero interest in racing ==> banned from UCI sanctioned racing events;

4. isn’t sexy enough ==> DUH!

[GovernorSilver]

@rcannon100 139409 wrote:

So here is the question. If I saw a huge improvement moving from a commuter city bike to a CX bike ~ would I see improvement moving to an adventure / endurance bike? I mean I know I have to train harder if I ever want to play with the big kids and play hooky on Fridays. But is an adventure / endurance bike gonna help me with range and ability to ride.

I love the Green Bike. It has improved my riding ability significantly. What I love the most is good long rides. The C&O. Gap. Even, if I have to, the WOD. I want a bike I can just ride.

The Jake The Snake one of the bikes I test-rode at Proteus. I recall it being an enjoyable ride. I wasn’t testing for speed/racing but it seemed quite a bit more relaxed than the Private Jake, whereas the Private encouraged me to accelerate.

I was mainly looking for a good combination of relaxed posture and smoothness over rough roads, random roots lurking under asphalt, etc. – the kind of stuff I encounter on my commute. I ended up with a Renegade Expert. Just couldn’t say no to the discounted price even though that stretched my budget quite a bit. Just such a plush ride.

This is only my 2nd week of commuting on it though so I can’t say how great it would be for multi-day touring. I have the saddle soreness from being off the saddle for too long – gotta wait for it to go away before I can report a bit more accurately.

[rcannon100]

@GovernorSilver 139481 wrote:

I recall it being an enjoyable ride.

JtS is a fabulous bike! Highly recommend it.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]11742[/ATTACH]

[KLizotte]

@GovernorSilver 139481 wrote:

I have the saddle soreness from being off the saddle for too long – gotta wait for it to go away before I can report a bit more accurately.

Most people I know replace the stock saddle for one that fits them better though that may require a fair bit of trial and error. Congrats on the new bike!

[Rod Smith]

@KLizotte 139488 wrote:

Most people I know replace the stock saddle for one that fits them better though that may require a fair bit of trial and error…

I ditch the stock saddle as soon as I’ve worn the cover off it.

[Rod Smith]

I was looking at that Renegade Expert myself but I have more bikes than dollars so I think I need to repair rather than replace. :rolleyes:

[GovernorSilver]

@KLizotte 139488 wrote:

Most people I know replace the stock saddle for one that fits them better though that may require a fair bit of trial and error. Congrats on the new bike!

Thanks!

I actually bought the Renegade back in November during the Small Business Saturday sale. On that day I was test-riding adventure/gravel road bikes and CX bikes for about 2-3 hours straight, just wearing regular jeans (no chamois) with hardly any saddle soreness. I’d been commuting 1-2 times a week, 25 miles each commute round trip starting in June. I remember feeling pretty sore from the saddle after my first extended ride out of my neighborhood – a 4 hour round trip ride in May on my first bike (Uptown . By fall, I didn’t notice anything down there any more from riding. I don’t remember exactly when I stopped getting sore from riding – I guess it just went away.

I had surgery a few days after I bought the Renegade, and a second surgery two months later, so I was off the saddle for about 4 months. So this is actually only the 2nd week I’ve been commuting on the Renegade since I bought it. I also felt sore after a grocery ride this past Saturday that included a stop by the Velo City garage sale – about 50 min. of moving time – and that was on the Uptown 8.

So I’ll wait about 6 months before making any decisions on the saddle – mainly because of how after some time, I “forgot” I was supposed to be sore from riding. November was 6 months from the day I bought the Uptown 8 and starting riding on it, and 5 months from the day I started commuting on it.

[rcannon100]

What saddle do you replace with?

And how do you choose size and fit? Was reading about sit bone width. Which I guess is just the distance between the two bone bumps on your rear end.

[GovernorSilver]

If I’m still feeling sore from the saddle at the end of a commute in November, I’ll have a sit bone measurement done, then start shopping for a saddle that matches both the measurements and my most frequently used riding posture. Coincidentally that would be around the time of the next round of Small Business Saturday sales.

My colleague said my riding posture on the Renegade looks pretty upright by road bike standards. For all I know I might end up leaning more and more forward as I get used to pedaling from those more forward postures. If that’s the case, I’d probably want to look more at saddles that have gaps for the man parts. For example, the stock Selle Royal saddle on my Renegade has a bit of a channel in the center, but not as deep as I’ve seen in other Selle Royal saddles.

The Uptown 8 saddle is fine so I’d only be looking for a Renegade saddle.

[LeprosyStudyGroup]

I’m putting a ban on anybody else around here buying bright green bikes! Don’t do it!

On a more serious note for Gov – I was just off the bike for a mere 2 week vacation and it took a whole week of riding around 20 miles a day before my meat saddle stopped complaining again. I have a feeling you’re right that all it will take is some more time. My first commuter took quite a while longer to break in, after a few weeks I took to calling it Taint Puncher.

[Author]

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