N+1? Do I need one? I want one…

[Enabler]

ian74;137485 wrote:

do i need an n+1????

yes.

[ian74]

Your user name is incredibly fitting!

[ShawnoftheDread]

Yes, you need an n+1.

[Tania]

I have the 2016 Kona Rove ST (purchased specifically for commuting) and I LOVE it but…

It’s heavy. That’s also a good thing in that when it comes time for me to get on my carbon bike, my legs last a lot longer. I’m small-ish so my idea of heavy might not be the same as yours. Initially I was going to get a steel Renegade but the wait times (end of 2015) were unknown and I really wanted a dedicated commuter before winter/FS started. I was sad to not get the Renegade but hindsight tells me I made the right choice (plus those purple hubs! I wouldn’t have built up new wheels with Renegade Exploit ). I’ve done some longer (50+ miles) hillier rides on the Rove and no complaints about the weight. I’m also happy I went with the Rove because it’s SRAM (and so is my Warbird).

It’s a 1×11 and I find the upper ranges are barely sufficient so when it comes time to replace parts of the drivetrain, I’ll either go for a bigger upper end in the cassette (if I can) or a different ring up front.

Finally, I can’t remember life before fenders. I seek out puddles.

[eminva]

@ian74 137485 wrote:

DO I NEED AN N+1????

If you wanted someone to talk you out of this, you came to the wrong place. :p I will tell you what I did when faced with a similar dilemma.

I had (and still have) a road bike, a Cannondale Synapse, more than adequate for my 29-mile round trip commute. I wanted a bike that would allow for wider tires, touring on the GAP or C&O easily, steel frame and with disc brakes. I identified a lot of the same models that you note as being out of your budget. Because I had a decent bike for commuting, I decided to bide my time and wait until I could save enough for the bike that was out of my budget. I parted out another bike which netted almost $1000, sold whatever other parts were lying around, made my own coffee, looked under sofa cushions, etc. After almost a year of saving, I started to shop and test ride, settling on the Volagi Viaje.

Eight months in, I have loved it so far. I’m not sure if it is lighter or heavier than the Cannondale, as I have that outfitted with full commuter regalia (rack, frame pump, etc.) and can’t bear to do that to the Volagi, but they are reasonably close. It is a great bike for commuting, and due to slightly different gearing (11-speed Ultegra cassette!), I prefer it to the Cannondale. It’s not slower, that’s for sure, and does NOT feel like a monster. In retrospect, I’m glad I waited to get just what I wanted.

I can’t answer your questions about how speedy another steel bike would be, but I’ve been happy.

If you are looking used, try the DC Used Bicycle Marketplace on Facebook. Sometimes a great opportunity presents itself.

Good luck.

Liz

[Emm]

yes you need an n+1. Maybe an n+2 or n+3…

Definitely consider is the used marketplace. 2 of my bikes were used, and they ended up as great deals ($1,200 for a $3500 bike in near-perfect condition, and my husbands old bike for free, but it needed $400 worth of work). But you may be able to find something that you’re looking for that needs minimal work within your price range on the Facebook “DC Used Bicycle Marketplace” group, or craigslist. And most sellers are cool about meeting you at a bike shop so a tech can look it over and tell you if it’s in good shape. I find 50-56 is the most common size range I usually see, so I’m sure something will pop up, or if you post a wanted ad on the facebook group you’ll get alot of responses.

[DismalScientist]

If you are competent at final assembly, the internet is your friend. Used is fine, but wider tires on road-like bikes is a more recent phenomena and there may be limited availability on the used market.

In terms of speed, weight savings is most important on moving components: wheels and tires. Frame material is probably not that important. Comparably equipped steel bikes go just as fast. Geometry is important and steel bikes typically are more relaxed, but it really depends on the specific design. (I didn’t actually say any of this last bit; I need to retain my street cred.:rolleyes:)

Fenders are for pansies.:rolleyes:

[huskerdont]

You can get steel that is comparable to aluminum now, and as stated elsewhere, a pound or so in the frame isn’t a big deal anyway since the frame doesn’t spin.

Bianchi Volpe might be a good candidate. If you can find a used one in your size, it would fit your budget. Might want to change the tires out to slicks.

Really would be nice if you could get your budget up to $1200+. That would get you up toward the lighter components that would make a difference. Something with Ultegra on it rather than Tiagra would be good, and a double chain ring rather than a triple. Better wheels as well–durable but not heavy beasts. So used might be the way to go.

[hozn]

@ian74 137485 wrote:

1. If I buy a steel bike, I’m afraid I will sacrifice speed as compared to my road bike. I still want to be able to get up to work quickly without too much time lost for pushing a big steel monster.

No, but that sh*t will rust. Honestly, I know people love steel, but I’ve owned a few steel bikes and if you ride them in the rain they’re gonna rust at any exposed metal — paint chips, dropouts, the inside of the frame, etc. Yes, you can manage this with touch up paint, and framesaver, etc. etc. So if you are the sort of person that dries off your bike with a compressor and wipes down all the surfaces after a ride that might work fine. I’m not. And so I would seriously hesitate to buy a steel commuter. (I’d probably buy an aluminum one given that price range.)

Weight (at least within this relatively narrow spectrum) has very little bearing on speed. What really affects speed are your riding position (so more upright = slower), tires and I imagine things like racks and paniers for aerodynamics. On group rides, my 22lb commuter doesn’t feel significantly slower than my 17lb road bike when the commuter is wearing fast tires. (But it is definitely slower right now with the comfy 30/32 tires.)

@ian74 137485 wrote:

Is steel a bad choice?

Yes! /ducking

@ian74 137485 wrote:

3 We say a Jamis Renegade locally on Tuesday, stock price was about 850 but the groupset was Shimano Claris. How would that hold up to 600-800 miles a month of abuse on broken bumpy
MUPs?

Groupsets, especially Shimano are so cheap. $300something for a full 105 groupset. I wouldn’t waste time with stuff that’s gonna limit upgradeability (i.e. save headache; go 11 speed) or is gonna just be clunky. And get a groupset with under-the-tape wiring. If it’s a commuter, it’s kinda annoying to have shifter cables cutting through your light’s path.

@ian74 137485 wrote:

4. I’m not opposed to buying used, so if anyone has something that might fit my bill and is sized like a 50/52 maybe I’d be interested?

Definitely, buy used. The DC Used Bicycle Marketplace FB group will probably have a great-spec bike that fits you in your price range within weeks (if there isn’t one now). Basically buying used means paying half price (don’t pay more than half price), so you can get a nice bike for an otherwise somewhat limiting budget.

My $0.02.

Of course you need the +1! And you have spousal approval! — What are you waiting for !?! Add [used bike] to cart!

[ian74]

@Tania 137490 wrote:

I have the 2016 Kona Rove ST (purchased specifically for commuting) and I LOVE it but…

It’s heavy. That’s also a good thing in that when it comes time for me to get on my carbon bike, my legs last a lot longer. I’m small-ish so my idea of heavy might not be the same as yours…

I love the Rove ST, it’s out of my budget range though Sad trombone. Your idea of heavy might not be the same?? Aren’t you a competitive weight lifter?

@eminva 137492 wrote:

If you wanted someone to talk you out of this, you came to the wrong place. :p I will tell you what I did when faced with a similar dilemma.

I had (and still have) a road bike, a Cannondale Synapse, more than adequate for my 29-mile round trip commute. I wanted a bike that would allow for wider tires, touring on the GAP or C&O easily, steel frame and with disc brakes. I identified a lot of the same models that you note as being out of your budget. Because I had a decent bike for commuting, I decided to bide my time and wait until I could save enough for the bike that was out of my budget. I parted out another bike which netted almost $1000, sold whatever other parts were lying around, made my own coffee, looked under sofa cushions, etc. After almost a year of saving, I started to shop and test ride, settling on the Volagi Viaje.

Liz

I love the Volagi Viaje! Ever since I saw kayakcindy’s picture of hers I’ve wanted one. I probably should keep saving…

@Emm 137494 wrote:

yes you need an n+1. Maybe an n+2 or n+3…

Definitely consider is the used marketplace. 2 of my bikes were used, and they ended up as great deals ($1,200 for a $3500 bike in near-perfect condition, and my husbands old bike for free, but it needed $400 worth of work). But you may be able to find something that you’re looking for that needs minimal work within your price range on the Facebook “DC Used Bicycle Marketplace” …

I’m already in the Facebook group! I watch it like a hawk. Someone was selling a Charge Filter that ticked all my check boxes just last week for $450! However, I snoozed on it and lost out. Still kicking myself!

@DismalScientist 137496 wrote:

If you are competent at final assembly, the internet is your friend. Used is fine, but wider tires on road-like bikes is a more recent phenomena and there may be limited availability on the used market.

In terms of speed, weight savings is most important on moving components: wheels and tires. Frame material is probably not that important. Comparably equipped steel bikes go just as fast. Geometry is important and steel bikes typically are more relaxed, but it really depends on the specific design. (I didn’t actually say any of this last bit; I need to retain my street cred.:rolleyes:)

Fenders are for pansies.:rolleyes:

I’m not competent at final, let alone any assembly. Glad to hear that the steel shouldn’t make too much difference. And fenders keep icy cold road spray from soaking my behind during FS.

@huskerdont 137498 wrote:

You can get steel that is comparable to aluminum now, and as stated elsewhere, a pound of so in the frame isn’t a big deal anyway since the frame doesn’t spin.

Bianchi Volpe might be a good candidate. If you can find a used one in your size, it would fit your budget. Might want to change the tires out to slicks.

Really would be nice if you could get your budget up to $1200+. That would get you up toward the lighter components that would make a difference. Something with Ultegra on it rather than Tiagra would be good, and a double chain ring rather than a triple. Better wheels as well–durable but not heavy beasts. So used might be the way to go.

My current bike has Ultegra, and I love it. Seems like I need to keep saving…

Thanks for the input gang!

[Tania]

@ian74 137501 wrote:

Your idea of heavy might not be the same?? Aren’t you a competitive weight lifter?

Power I got. Endurance? Not so much.

[dkel]

@hozn 137500 wrote:

Honestly, I know people love steel, but I’ve owned a few steel bikes and if you ride them in the rain they’re gonna rust at any exposed metal — paint chips, dropouts, the inside of the frame, etc.

My steel Straggler had 6000 miles of full-time commutes in all weather on it when I swapped out the frame for a different size. When I disassembled it, I thought I would find rust and all kinds of things going on in all the places I never looked, like inside the frame and at the dropouts…not so. I never dry the thing after a wet ride, and only (reluctantly) clean the bike once a year (after BAFS), and experienced no trouble from the steel frame. Admittedly, 6000 miles is only about a year and a half of commutes, but still, I was pretty impressed. I do think fenders can help protect the frame from the worst of the elements: rain is just water, but road spray is all kinds of crap you don’t want on your bike.

TL;DR: just ask Dismal how long steel bikes last. He still rides some of his bikes from when he was a kid in the 19th century.

[hozn]

@dkel 137507 wrote:

My steel Straggler had 6000 miles of full-time commutes in all weather on it when I swapped out the frame for a different size. When I disassembled it, I thought I would find rust and all kinds of things going on in all the places I never looked, like inside the frame and at the dropouts…not so. I never dry the thing after a wet ride, and only (reluctantly) clean the bike once a year (after BAFS), and experienced no trouble from the steel frame. Admittedly, 6000 miles is only about a year and a half of commutes, but still, I was pretty impressed. I do think fenders can help protect the frame from the worst of the elements: rain is just water, but road spray is all kinds of crap you don’t want on your bike.

All I know is that my steel bikes (which have been 2/3 mountain bikes) always got nicks in the paint and always rusted wherever there was exposed metal. E.g. the dropouts (sliding dropouts) and around the set screws for said dropouts on my Voodoo, paint nicks on my jabberwocky. On my SE Lager the dropouts were the only significant exposed metal and they were rusty.

In short, whatever you were doing to keep your exposed steel from rusting must have been working!

Edit: to be fair, it may have taken a couple years for rust to take hold. I didn’t really keep track of timeline there. It’s just a consideration: steel rusts.

[huskerdont]

Steel may corrode, but aluminum breaks. I’ve broken two aluminum frames over the years, and have never gone back to it.

I also have a 1965 Schwinn Varsity that doesn’t have any rust. The bearings in the bracket were frozen in place, but the frame was fine.

Several bike materials to chose from, and none of them are wrong.

[GovernorSilver]

Surly and All-City both put “ED coating” on their steel frames. Maybe all the QBP companies do that – not sure. I’m guessing this is not the same as Framesaver.

I fell to N+1 disease myself during last year’s Small Business Saturday sale season.

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