Microlattice

[mstone]

metallic microlattices compress. they may be useful for shocks on bikes, but not for anything structural. in aerospace applications they form the core of a laminate panel, but I think the opportunities for that are limited on bikes–we don’t generally have a lot of large panels, and there are physical constraints on how big we want the thing that we’re sitting on.

maybe fully enclosed recumbents could benefit, but I suspect that the strength would be overkill vs a vinyl sheet, and the cost prohibitive.

[Crickey7]

Agreed, a lot of these new materials sound fantastic, but turn out to have fairly limited applications. My buddy in forestry keeps raving about nanocellulose.

[PotomacCyclist]

It might have more use for time trial/triathlon bikes. Those tend to have much broader down tubes when viewed from the side, sometimes 3 inches or more in width.

[Steve O]

@PotomacCyclist 126089 wrote:

and 100 times lighter than styrofoam

Pet peeve: not “100 times lighter,” which is meaningless, but “99% lighter,” which is not.

[dasgeh]

@PotomacCyclist 126103 wrote:

It might have more use for time trial/triathlon bikes. Those tend to have much broader down tubes when viewed from the side, sometimes 3 inches or more in width.

But aren’t the downtubes, um, tubes, with air inside?

[PotomacCyclist]

Yes, but if this material is more appropriate for larger panels, then perhaps it could be used for time trial bike frames. Or at least the wide down tubes (which are more like panels on TT bikes).

I was also thinking that if the material becomes practical for commercial use, that it could be used for bike trailers, as long as it isn’t too expensive. That’s one place where a decrease in weight would be helpful.

Maybe none of this is practical. But that’s part of R&D and reading about it. Some things work out, some don’t.

[hozn]

This reminds me of that other failure frame tech.
[IMG]http://bikearlingtonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9830&stc=1[/IMG]
I guess there’s still time to get one of just 15 commemorative frames. http://www.delta7bikes.com/

Can you imagine trying to clean that? — especially the mtb variant. Seems rather silly. I guess the rest of the world thought so too.

More to the technology in this thread, I don’t know why one would want to fill carbon frame tubes. They seem to be plenty strong & plenty stiff in their current hollow configuration.

[mstone]

@dasgeh 126118 wrote:

But aren’t the downtubes, um, tubes, with air inside?

The theory is that you can create a panel that consists of thin, rigid exterior surfaces with an internal structure to add strength. A lot of highway signs are made that way now, consisting of a foam sandwich covered by thin aluminum rather than a thick solid sheet of metal. In cycling applications we tend to not use many panels, and tubes are pretty strong already. You could maybe shave some weight off with this sort of technique, but I suspect that to do so you’d end up with something with walls so thin it wouldn’t be viable (like, you’d be able to mess up the surface by squeezing it too hard picking it up).

[KLizotte]

Perhaps the better application for microlattice would be for helmets and casts for broken limbs.

[PotomacCyclist]

Upon further consideration, the light weight would exclude this from pro road cycling, because of the lower weight limits in the UCI regulations. That wouldn’t affect bikes made for non-pros, but high-end equipment tends to filter down from what the manufacturers make for the pro cyclists.

In triathlon, they don’t have to follow the UCI rules so you already see many different designs. As you can see in the following images, the downtubes are very broad and flat in triathlon bikes. So are the seat tubes. They are more like sleeves or panels than tubes. Other than the basic triangle structure, tri bikes differ quite a bit from road bikes.
You can also see the “unique” designs for some models.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9832[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9833[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9834[/ATTACH]

[PotomacCyclist]

The material could also be useful for aero wheels, depending on how they handle heat and pressure from brake pads. I have no idea how microlattices differ from carbon fiber structures. If there are differences, that could make microlattices more useful. It could provide another option, in addition to traditional metal wheels, carbon fiber rims and disc brake wheels (which can be heavier).

[hozn]

If it is flexible/compressible as mstone indicated, it sounds like it wouldn’t be a good fit for frames or certainly wheels. Interesting in general, though.

[PotomacCyclist]

The sample in the video might not be the exact design of a final product. Carbon-fiber reinforced plastics can have different properties, depending on how they are manufactured. There are variations in terms of layering, direction, etc. I don’t know all the details but I do know that the same material can be produced to fit different needs. The same might be true for microlattices. Perhaps the actual product is denser and doesn’t bend quite as much as we see in the video. If there even is an actual product at this point.

[Vicegrip]

@hozn 126199 wrote:

If it is flexible/compressible as mstone indicated, it sounds like it wouldn’t be a good fit for frames or certainly wheels. Interesting in general, though.

it is flexible. Fantastic in sheet form when incorporated into something else. I don’t see where it would come into play with bike frames. How would it be better than a tube? A tube is already a strong geometric shape. Filling the tube does little. Making the tube walls from a skin/microlattice/skin composite could be one way but the transitions would be very complex.

Carbon fiber is a young material all things considered. Look at how long we have been making things from iron and its evolution from wrought to puddle casting to steel to advanced alloys to advanced forming and welding. Carbon and other fibers and resins are fully useful now but I suspect that we will see great advances in this area.

[Sunyata]

@KLizotte 126136 wrote:

Perhaps the better application for microlattice would be for helmets and casts for broken limbs.

This is exactly where my mind went when I saw the video. This would be an excellent technology for helmets or maybe even shoes if it is lighter than carbon fiber.

From a frame standpoint, in order to maintain aerodynamics, you would still have to have a solid outer shell. It does not make any sense to fill an already light carbon fiber tube (or panel in the case of aero bikes) with another substance if the outer shell is already strong enough for the task at hand.

[Author]

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