Manual Entries vs Electronic Recording on Strava

[vvill]

It may or may not be interesting to note that Strava often does not include/allow manual entries for their challenges.

Losing a long ride would be pretty annoying though. Maybe we could allow manual entries but not allow riders to only use manual entries. And for manual entries, just take the start timestamp and distance, and ignore the riding time/speed/etc.

I understand the “barrier to entry” with a GPS device but we’re not really the National Bike Challenge anymore with the sophisticated website and all the sidebets and pointless prizes. I’d be more concerned with keeping our devs unburdened at this point so that we can keep the website and high end features.

[Steve O]

I like the idea of allowing manual entries for lost rides, forgotten button pushing and the like. I had a little of it this year, I think about 2% of my miles. No big deal unless it also cost me a day.
I believe the way it is set up now is manual miles and days count on the main leaderboards but are ignored on all of the other metric charts. I’m cool with that if we want to keep it that way.

I’d also be fine with the MapMyRide option, since it would encourage one to register a ride of significance while also discouraging hanky panky. If my manual rides were all fairly insignificant (I can’t remember) I wouldn’t be troubled by losing 2% of my miles overall.

[bentbike33]

@rcannon100 137293 wrote:

I also dont own a smart phone. I have this work issued thing. I think it was made by Canadians. Its not smart. It has no apps that can reasonably be used with Strava.

Before my agency issued iPhones, I used this on the Canadian-made device: https://appworld.canadians.com/webstore/content/50491/?lang=en&countrycode=US. I would start recording, put the device in its holster, slip it into my bag, ride, and upload the data to Strava at the end of the ride. It worked fine for recording rides. I think I lost only one ride because the device rebooted in the middle of the ride after a software update.

[hozn]

@vvill 137302 wrote:

It may or may not be interesting to note that Strava often does not include/allow manual entries for their challenges.

Losing a long ride would be pretty annoying though. Maybe we could allow manual entries but not allow riders to only use manual entries. And for manual entries, just take the start timestamp and distance, and ignore the riding time/speed/etc.

I understand the “barrier to entry” with a GPS device but we’re not really the National Bike Challenge anymore with the sophisticated website and all the sidebets and pointless prizes. I’d be more concerned with keeping our devs unburdened at this point so that we can keep the website and high end features.

How do you feel about allowing manually created tracks (e.g. via ridewithgps.com) rather than Strava manual rides? This seems to solve the problem of lost data, although it certainly requires a bit more work. Hopefully lost data rides would be rare enough that this compromise would be acceptable.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@hozn 137310 wrote:

How do you feel about allowing manually created tracks (e.g. via ridewithgps.com) rather than Strava manual rides? This seems to solve the problem of lost data, although it certainly requires a bit more work. Hopefully lost data rides would be rare enough that this compromise would be acceptable.

If you like it for your strange magician reasons, we like it.

[vvill]

@hozn 137310 wrote:

How do you feel about allowing manually created tracks (e.g. via ridewithgps.com) rather than Strava manual rides? This seems to solve the problem of lost data, although it certainly requires a bit more work. Hopefully lost data rides would be rare enough that this compromise would be acceptable.

I’m fine with that. I personally don’t recall many lost miles at all, usually it’s just forgetting to hit start after a long stop or something (and often then Strava interpolates close enough to your mileage), so it’s probably for those who rely more on manual tracking to chime in on this.

[DrP]

As someone who used the manual entries, I probably would not do Freezing Saddles if manual entry was banned. Why? Called me paranoid, if need be, but I really try hard to have as little of my information out in the internet as possible. I purposely do not have accounts on facebook, linked in, etc. because if I want someone to know about me, I will tell them. I joined this forum mostly for the road and trail conditions – I was getting so much information from it, I felt I needed to provide information back. I joined Strava only for Freezing Saddles and was thrilled to find I could put so little information there. Even if your settings are pretty private, hacking occurs. I do not want to make it easier for folks to know where I started a ride and ended one since it makes it that much easier to figure out who I am and what I do and when I am in one place versus another. Sure, given some of the recent major hacks (e.g., UMD, Target, Anthem, OPM, other stores), my information is likely in one or more hands, but that doesn’t mean I want to provide yet another piece to their puzzles.

Also, I have no reason to track my rides otherwise. If I want to know how far I went, Google pedometer can be used to figure it out. I don’t usually care to that level – I am going to work or I am having fun – not racing, not training, just getting some exercise.

Freezing Saddles was fun – I definitely biked more than I would have and tried to make the top three on my team in some of the categories on Strava each week as well as tried to make it pretty high in the overall leaderboards. I added to my commute to try to make up some of the mileage for a fallen teammate (I no longer have to go that extra mile to get to work. ). My schedule this year didn’t allow me to do too many social things, nor were there that many to do that I noted and was interested in. I would like to do more next year, but not if the manual entry isn’t allowed. Am I required to play? No. But it would be fun to do it again (I may have convinced an officemate to try it next year).

As to all the different values calculated that cannot occur for manual entries, some of them require a few more checks when pulling in the data – check for elapsed time, if zero, ignore, if not, then add in. I know that this all takes time (I have done quite a bit of data analysis over the years), but it can be done. I do realize the folks who are doing it are doing it for fun and not profit, so it might not occur, but it can be technically be handled and calculated.

[hozn]

@DrP 137421 wrote:

As to all the different values calculated that cannot occur for manual entries, some of them require a few more checks when pulling in the data – check for elapsed time, if zero, ignore, if not, then add in. I know that this all takes time (I have done quite a bit of data analysis over the years), but it can be done.

Yes, it can technically be handled (and is), but the problem is that when a ride doesn’t show up, this turns ino a “support request”. And I honestly don’t have time to service multiple “why-didnt-my-ride-cout” inquiries per day (the frequency of this is a little surprising given how few manual entry riders there are).

I guess fundamentally the question is whether you can play Freezing Saddles without being willing to share more information about rides in a social-media setting. I think I am suggesting the answer is “no” — because this is what makes the competition rich. I realize this is incompatible with maintaining online invisibility.

[americancyclo]

@wheels&wings 137291 wrote:

The unfortunate truth is that it’s on those coldest days in the worst conditions that our electronics are most likely to malfunction. On the most extreme days, doing the sleaze can be quite a feat…

@rcannon100 137297 wrote:

If GPS tracks are required, the above info could be excellent. A short list of affordable official big brother tracking devices.
Still, I would much rather just sit on my couch and make up pretend mileages.

[TABLE=”width: 500″]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE=”width: 491″]
[TR]
[TD]Device[/TD]
[TD]Operating Temp[/TD]
[TD]Cost[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canmore GT-730FL-S[/TD]
[TD]-40ºF to 185ºF[/TD]
[TD]$38.95 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Motorola Moto E 4G Prepaid[/TD]
[TD]14ºF to 140ºF[/TD]
[TD]$39.99 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cateye Stealth 10[/TD]
[TD]0°F to 104°F [/TD]
[TD]$53.98 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]iPhone Prepaid[/TD]
[TD]32ºF to 95ºF [/TD]
[TD]$91.85 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Garmin Edge 20[/TD]
[TD]5ºF to 140ºF[/TD]
[TD]$129.99 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Garmin Edge 1000[/TD]
[TD]5ºF to 140ºF[/TD]
[TD]$449.99 [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[sjclaeys]

@hozn 137422 wrote:

Yes, it can technically be handled (and is), but the problem is that when a ride doesn’t show up, this turns ino a “support request”. And I honestly don’t have time to service multiple “why-didnt-my-ride-cout” inquiries per day (the frequency of this is a little surprising given how few manual entry riders there are).

I guess fundamentally the question is whether you can play Freezing Saddles without being willing to share more information about rides in a social-media setting. I think I am suggesting the answer is “no” — because this is what makes the competition rich. I realize this is incompatible with maintaining online invisibility.

Perhaps you or whomever runs the website in the future should be able to charge a $20 per inquiry fee for “why-didn’t-my-ride-count” inquiries.

[jrenaut]

@sjclaeys 137430 wrote:

Perhaps you or whomever runs the website in the future should be able to charge a $20 per inquiry fee for “why-didn’t-my-ride-count” inquiries.

I’d do it for a beer. Though some of the issues are parts of the code I don’t really understand.

[Anonymous]

@hozn 137422 wrote:

Yes, it can technically be handled (and is), but the problem is that when a ride doesn’t show up, this turns ino a “support request”. And I honestly don’t have time to service multiple “why-didnt-my-ride-cout” inquiries per day (the frequency of this is a little surprising given how few manual entry riders there are).

Separately from the question of whether or not manual entries should be allowed, “support requests” is something other people ought to be able to help you out with. Don’t need to know code or the inner workings of the app to troubleshoot common problems. If a, b, and c are the most common causes of Y and someone says “Help, Y is happening, can you fix it?” someone else could check (or ask the person with the problem to check) a, b and c. Only after confirming those are not the problems would we send them on to you for expert help. We would just have to make sure questions go to your “helpers” first.

[hozn]

Yeah, that is fair. I started work on a self-service feature to diagnose errors, so completing that would go a long way to reducing any support.

In the grand scheme of things, I am more bothered by the incongruity in the data than the efforts needed to support manual entries. I feel that there is general consensus that FS, even the competitive part, is greatly enhanced by the additional data/metrics.

[Vicegrip]

@americancyclo 137426 wrote:

[TABLE=”width: 500″]
[TR]
[TD][TABLE=”width: 491″]
[TR]
[TD]Device[/TD]
[TD]Operating Temp[/TD]
[TD]Cost[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Canmore GT-730FL-S[/TD]
[TD]-40ºF to 185ºF[/TD]
[TD]$38.95 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Motorola Moto E 4G Prepaid[/TD]
[TD]14ºF to 140ºF[/TD]
[TD]$39.99 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cateye Stealth 10[/TD]
[TD]0°F to 104°F [/TD]
[TD]$53.98 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]iPhone Prepaid[/TD]
[TD]32ºF to 95ºF [/TD]
[TD]$91.85 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Garmin Edge 20[/TD]
[TD]5ºF to 140ºF[/TD]
[TD]$129.99 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Garmin Edge 1000[/TD]
[TD]5ºF to 140ºF[/TD]
[TD]$449.99 [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

interesting. I think the 5 seg min on the Garmin Edges is a bit conservative. I have run my 500 and 1000 in sub 0 with no issues.

I re-powered my 500 a while ago after the old battery was going from full charge to almost dead in 6 hours. The new battery (Same spec as the OEM) lasts longer than the run times Garmin published for it.

[rcannon100]

Realizing that I could buy a refurbished old iphone for a fraction of the cost of a garmin. Would not even have to turn it on to a telephone network. I am sort of amazed that garmin is able to hang on (the price of their car GPSs did plummet) {oh, well that says something – Garmin stock over last 10 years… lost 2.5%}

[Author]

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