Lynn/Lee Lighted No Turn on Red

[dasgeh]

Hmmm… Somehow I only have a non-lighted picture. Anyway, it’s the black box just to the left of the right-most traffic light.

[ShawnoftheDread]

It should come on before the leading pedestrian signal rather than simultaneously.

[baiskeli]

@ShawnoftheDread 106904 wrote:

It should come on before the leading pedestrian signal rather than simultaneously.

Yes. Perhaps it could be on through the entire red cycle, which is a nice reminder for motorists to look at it.

[dasgeh]

@baiskeli 106905 wrote:

Yes. Perhaps it could be on through the entire red cycle, which is a nice reminder for motorists to look at it.

I think the reason we have this sign is that staff (I don’t know exactly who or how pervasive) didn’t want a full time no turn on red.

[Steve O]

@dasgeh 106902 wrote:

So the sign is up at the Intersection of Doom (Lynn and WB Lee) — it’s a lighted no turn on red that is on (i.e. prohibits turns) while the leading pedestrian signal is on. I first saw it on MLK Day. They’ve been adjusting light timing since, and I’m told they’re not done. I keep meaning to take video, but every time I go through there I think “eh, it’s really cold and it will be warmer next time I come through…” The latter doesn’t seem to have come true yet.

Has anyone else noticed the sign? What have people noticed as far as compliance? Other thoughts?

I’ll post a pic in a second.

Yes I have noticed, and I also had the thought of taking a video with identical results.
I actually talked with Larry Marcus the other night about it. He and I met on the trail and commuted together for about 3 miles, a very positive serendipity.

I told him exactly what Dread says: it needs to come on several seconds prior to the LPI to help prevent the right-turn-on-red-creepers from making their turn exactly as it comes on. I would suggest a full 4-5 seconds prior to the LPI.

I haven’t watched it long enough to know when it stops (I go; it’s cold out there!). In my opinion it should stay on for the entire walk and countdown cycle, giving peds and cyclists a lot more comfort about crossing without conflict. It also needs to be on long enough to actually be noticed. If it’s actually true that it’s only on for the LPI, then I doubt most drivers have even noticed it.

I also worry about what exactly drivers think when it turns off. Do they understand that it is still necessary to yield or does the change from on to off embolden them to be more aggressive about turning right?

[dasgeh]

Great points. I should add that it’s actually a “no right turn” sign, with no limit to “on red”… (We’d been talking about that for so long, I was inexact)

[scoot]

Does this sign only come on during the LPI (i.e. not lit while Lynn Street is green)? If so, it will almost certainly not be noticed by the drivers at the front of the line who are busy looking at Lynn Street traffic and then raring to go as soon as they see cars come to a stop. The ones behind may however be more apt to see it when it suddenly comes on (than they would have been to notice it were it lit the whole time).

[dasgeh]

@scoot 106965 wrote:

Does this sign only come on during the LPI (i.e. not lit while Lynn Street is green)? If so, it will almost certainly not be noticed by the drivers at the front of the line who are busy looking at Lynn Street traffic and then raring to go as soon as they see cars come to a stop. The ones behind may however be more apt to see it when it suddenly comes on (than they would have been to notice it were it lit the whole time).

Yes, this only comes on during the LPI. I’m hoping to get some of people’s actual observations. I have seen cars stay stopped at the light when the LPI comes on even when there have been no cyclists/pedestrians are crossing, so I do think that some drivers see it.

[Steve O]

@scoot 106965 wrote:

Does this sign only come on during the LPI (i.e. not lit while Lynn Street is green)? If so, it will almost certainly not be noticed by the drivers at the front of the line who are busy looking at Lynn Street traffic and then raring to go as soon as they see cars come to a stop. The ones behind may however be more apt to see it when it suddenly comes on (than they would have been to notice it were it lit the whole time).

I just videotaped it and will upload a bit later.
Yes, the No-Right-Turn is on for a total of 4-5 seconds, just during the LPI. Then it turns off as soon as the light turns green.

Amazingly, you will see in the video, a car actually ran the No-Right-Turn signal during the first cycle I taped. Not encouraging.

[mstone]

@Steve O 106979 wrote:

Amazingly, you will see in the video, a car actually ran the No-Right-Turn signal during the first cycle I taped. Not encouraging.

Obviously we should get rid of all highway funding, because scofflaw drivers.

[ShawnoftheDread]

Perhaps they should have incorporated a red right arrow into the traffic signal rather than a separate sign.

[vvill]

I always just cross here as if I’m jaywalking (jaybiking?), as if there’s no green pedestrian light at all. I’m not sure having this sign is really going to help – the ability to go right on red at such an intersection is so ingrained in drivers. Though yeah maybe an incorporated red right arrow would help more.

[scoot]

I don’t pass through IoD often, but I did this evening. Not much activity, just myself and two pedestrians crossing, all of us westbound. I saw the new sign light up as the LPI began. The right-turning drivers did wait for all three of us to get out of the way (i.e. halfway across the intersection), but proceeded to violate the new sign before the expiration of LPI. Which I had no problem with, since there wasn’t anyone else using the trail anyway.

As for the effectiveness of the new LED sign, I would guess very little. Maybe it will help when charging a driver if someone is hit during LPI. But it seems that nothing short of retractable barriers (retractable spike strips?) will reliably contain drivers at that intersection.

[Steve O]

@Steve O 106979 wrote:

I just videotaped it and will upload a bit later.
Yes, the No-Right-Turn is on for a total of 4-5 seconds, just during the LPI. Then it turns off as soon as the light turns green.

Actually, the LPI and the new light are on for about 10 seconds.

[video=youtube_share;99geSdRckMU]http://youtu.be/99geSdRckMU[/video]

[Steve O]

@Steve O 106979 wrote:

Amazingly, you will see in the video, a car actually ran the No-Right-Turn signal during the taping. Not encouraging.

[video=youtube_share;yEf7_qAgoGM]http://youtu.be/yEf7_qAgoGM[/video]

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