Lynn/Lee Intersection of Doom Medium-Term Fixes

[Terpfan]

@KWL 112905 wrote:

Perhaps we could get a “Don’t Block the Box” sign and yellow stripes there? Though my idea of the sign to post would be “Don’t wait for the light there you idiot.”

If it wasn’t going to rain tomorrow, I would be tempted to buy some sidewalk chalk and try the theory out myself.

[consularrider]

Well, it seemed like most of the cars I saw the two times I went through the Intersection of Doom today just ignored (or didn’t “see”) the no right on red light when the lead pedestrian walk was lit. That included the man driving a silver full-sized pickup that tried to right hook me just as I was starting to cross. Good thing I was paying attention since the he never even looked to the right. I gave a bang on the wall of the truck bed and yelled. “HEY,” as he came within about six inches of hitting me and just kept going to the red light to turn left onto the GW Parkway. He did stick his hand out the window and give me a five-finger acknowledgement. 😡

[Sunyata]

I do not normally travel through the IoD, but yesterday was such a nice day that I took the long way home and went through there. I was incredibly pleased to not that the traffic turning right actually did yield while the sign was lit.

That being said, I can absolutely see that this sign will mostly be ignored or even not seen since it is only lit during a short window of time. I wonder if maybe a bigger, flashier “YIELD TO PEDESTRIANS” sign would be more effective there? One that is lit ALL the time?

[creadinger]

@Sunyata 113252 wrote:

I do not normally travel through the IoD, but yesterday was such a nice day that I took the long way home and went through there. I was incredibly pleased to not that the traffic turning right actually did yield while the sign was lit.

That being said, I can absolutely see that this sign will mostly be ignored or even not seen since it is only lit during a short window of time. I wonder if maybe a bigger, flashier “YIELD TO PEDESTRIANS” sign would be more effective there? One that is lit ALL the time?

Yes, I feel like any other type of sign would probably be more effective there.

I drove through there on a Sunday morning recently, and I only noticed it because I had seen it while on a bike the week before. There’s SO much other stuff to look for at that intersection! A sign that’s only lit for a few seconds is not going to get my attention, especially in the day time.

That’s just my opinion of it. Maybe it was a nice idea, but in practice it’s just not effective. It may even be worse than not-effective because it may lead to a false sense of security in peds and cyclists, because they may assume that drivers see it and are paying attention to it, when in fact they do not.

[chris_s]

Some priority.

[mstone]

@chris_s 113257 wrote:

Some priority.

Maybe the problem will just go away. Maybe self-driving cars will solve the problem by magic. Maybe the horse will learn to sing. Kicking the can down the road is a time-honored bureaucratic tradition.

[vvill]

L and 20th NW in DC has a similar intersection, though it’s lower volume and slower traffic. The version here has motorists going first (either turning right or straight) on the green while peds wait – then the ped light changes to green as the red light arrow goes on. Too many signals/signs in the same place here too, I think.

https://goo.gl/maps/FhghH

I’ve seen vehicles go on red though, and also pedestrians assume they have a green when the motorists do. Not sure if it’s any better. Guess it doesn’t really matter since DC traffic often seems to ignore traffic signal timing (e.g. for most taxis/buses, a red light applies only once it’s been red for 3 seconds or more).

[Terpfan]

@vvill 113289 wrote:

L and 20th NW in DC has a similar intersection, though it’s lower volume and slower traffic. The version here has motorists going first (either turning right or straight) on the green while peds wait – then the ped light changes to green as the red light arrow goes on. Too many signals/signs in the same place here too, I think.

https://goo.gl/maps/FhghH

I’ve seen vehicles go on red though, and also pedestrians assume they have a green when the motorists do. Not sure if it’s any better. Guess it doesn’t really matter since DC traffic office seems to ignore traffic signal timing (e.g. for most taxis/buses, a red light applies only once it’s been red for 3 seconds or more).

Adding emphasis on the red light rule for buses and taxis. This morning the Circulator decided he had a solid 6 seconds after the red to turn off Wisconsin.

That L and 20th is horrible. Of course, I think it’s 21st when you drive or bike over where they have the crosswalk right after K going through the middle of the road sans any stop signs, which is also horrible. DC is just a maze sometimes.

[Steve O]

@dasgeh 112904 wrote:

Update: you can also talk to Tom directly at Monday night’s ABAC meeting — 7pm 2100 Clarendon Blvd; 3rd floor. He’s just been confirmed on the agenda.

At the meeting Tom showed some 90% drawings, and we had a spirited discussion of the project. I made a point about the location of the light pole on the NE corner (see here). The new drawings still show it as being in the area of travel–the triangle shown here.

Here is the email exchange I had with Tom following the meeting:

---

Hi Tom,

Thanks a lot for coming to the BAC meeting and bringing us up to date on the project. I appreciate your taking the time to do so.

I was the person who made the point that the light signal pole on the NE corner of Lynn & Lee/I-66 ramp is unacceptably located. I’m pretty certain it would be considered absurd to place it in the rightmost travel lane, where it would impede and endanger the people driving cars. Identically, it should be considered absurd to place it in the travel lane for people riding bikes or walking.
Looking more closely at the drawing, perhaps you should consider moving it as far north as possible, so that it is up against the driveway–which would take it mostly out of the travel corridor for esplanade and trail users. Better would be to put it on the other side of Lynn, but I suspect that’s more difficult because it may be on NPS land.

Thanks for taking the needs of all people using this area into consideration. And thanks again for keeping us informed.

Kind regards,
Steve

---

His reply:

---

Steve, I have forwarded your question to Toole Design to again review this issue. I also sent it to them after the meeting and I am waiting on their response. Staff supports the move as well. I appreciate your encouragement to get the best design we can. Toole is very responsive and I hope share their reply when I get it.

Tom Hutchings
Capital Projects Manager
Arlington County Division of Transportation
( Work: 703.228.3809 ( Cell: 703.582.2523
Email: [URL=”blocked::mailto:Thutchings@arlingtonva.us”]Thutchings@arlingtonva.us[/URL]

[rcannon100]

So Big Brother, I mean Chris….. care to share what you were up to at IoD the other day??

[chris_s]

@rcannon100 119849 wrote:

So Big Brother, I mean Chris….. care to share what you were up to at IoD the other day??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLUuXnWyKMg&feature=youtu.be

Honestly, it’s noticeably less doom-y than past visits. Not sure if that’s because it’s summer and therefore lower volumes of cars or because ACPD has been doing enforcement or because folks are getting used to the new signal timing.

[rcannon100]

It’s true. Previously I would not even cross IoD. I would go south side and cross Lynn, and then on the East side cross Lee (cars next to you when crossing are at full stop). I only started crossing north side Lynn when they put up the no-turn-on-red light.

Still not perfected. But yes indeed, it is much better ~ and appreciated!

[americancyclo]

Just got an email with a Lynn Street & Lee Highway Improvements Fact Sheet.

I’m curious about this one:

Expanding the police presence with two traffic enforcement officers assigned every weekday from 7 to 9:15 a.m.

How many drivers were pulled over in the first half of 2015 since this started? How many warnings issued? How many tickets issued?

I feel safer with the ACPD out there. At least someone will hear me if I need to yell at drivers trying to run me over.

[chris_s]

@chris_s 113257 wrote:

Some priority.

Schedule as of Spring 2016:

Time keeps on slippin, slippin, slippin…

Presented without further comment, a timeline of cycling & automotive conflict at the intersection of Lee Highway, Lynn Street and the Custis Trail (the so-called Intersection of Doom). Apologies if I missed any important developments or got any dates wrong.

[Steve O]

@chris_s 138645 wrote:

Schedule as of Spring 2016:

Time keeps on slippin, slippin, slippin…

So from spring 2013 to spring 2016, a span of 3 years, project completion slipped from Summer 2014 to Fall 2018, a span of 4 1/4 years.

So, on average, every 30-day period that passes adds 43 days to the project end date. It’s like some sort of time-warpy magic. Sweet.

[Author]

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