Lynn/Lee Intersection of Doom Medium-Term Fixes

[americancyclo]

@Kolohe 111731 wrote:

Adam “Sprawl and Crawl” Tuss was at the intersection yesterday

http://www.nbcwashington.com/video/#!/news/local/New-Safety-Measures-at-Rosslyns-Intersection-of-Doom/296800771

(autoplay video, as is NBC4Washington’s wont)

I love the two driver quotes:

as a driver its pretty frustrating because you don’t know when you should go and when you shouldn’t.

a lot of people are riding their bikes and crossing and people are trying to run them over.

how is this acceptable?

[chris_s]

@rcannon100 112148 wrote:

While Arlco Popo is engaged in pedestrian safety campaign in Rosslyn, cyclist gets door by Uber passenger.

Yup.

Doored on the PASSENGER side by a car that was stopped in the travel lane.

Bizarro.

[DismalScientist]

This is what happens when there is a right-hand side bike lane. Taxis should always move to the curb when dropping off passengers. This would have never happened if this were a real cab.:rolleyes:

That said, no injury to the cyclist, no visible damage to the CaBi, damage to the car door. Isn’t this a victory?

[Powerful Pete]

Wait until the cyclist wakes up tomorrow. It won’t feel like a victory. Been there, done that.

Ouch.

[jabberwocky]

@DismalScientist 112169 wrote:

This is what happens when there is a right-hand side bike lane. Taxis should always move to the curb when dropping off passengers. This would have never happened if this were a real cab.:rolleyes:

That said, no injury to the cyclist, no visible damage to the CaBi, damage to the car door. Isn’t this a victory?

Those Cabi bikes are freaking tanks. Im surprised it didn’t rip the door off.

Anything that damages a BMW is a win in my book.

[oldbikechick]

I commuted to work for the first time in a year today and it was great to be back in the saddle and see how things have changed on the route. At the Lee/Lynn intersection, I got to the crossing just as it turned to the countdown and went across with 18 seconds left or so, of course keeping an eye on potential right-turning cars, as always. As I went across, I got beeped at by a driver in the second right-turning lane, which made me wonder if something has changed there. Do they now get some sort of signal when the crossing light changes from walk to the countdown? Or is that when the “don’t turn right” signal goes away for them? Does this now make drivers think that they don’t need to yield to crosswalk users or that we are now jaywalking? Or, maybe the guy was just being a jerk? Or are we really not supposed to cross after the counter starts counting down? I always assumed that was not the case since in some places, there is no walk signal at all, just the countdown.

[ebubar]

@oldbikechick 112346 wrote:

I commuted to work for the first time in a year today and it was great to be back in the saddle and see how things have changed on the route. At the Lee/Lynn intersection, I got to the crossing just as it turned to the countdown and went across with 18 seconds left or so, of course keeping an eye on potential right-turning cars, as always. As I went across, I got beeped at by a driver in the second right-turning lane, which made me wonder if something has changed there. Do they now get some sort of signal when the crossing light changes from walk to the countdown? Or is that when the “don’t turn right” signal goes away for them? Does this now make drivers think that they don’t need to yield to crosswalk users or that we are now jaywalking? Or, maybe the guy was just being a jerk? Or are we really not supposed to cross after the counter starts counting down? I always assumed that was not the case since in some places, there is no walk signal at all, just the countdown.

I assume they were just a jerk. You absolutely have every right to cross. As far as I know, as long as the crosswalk is counting down, you are good to go. It’s when the numbers go away and the hand starts blinking that you are technically
not supposed to begin crossing.

If you’re feeling cheeky, you can just stop right in front of the car next time, smile and give them a friendly wave for honking to acknowledge how awesome you are for biking!

[scoot]

@oldbikechick 112346 wrote:

Or are we really not supposed to cross after the counter starts counting down? I always assumed that was not the case since in some places, there is no walk signal at all, just the countdown.

Technically it’s legal to enter the crosswalk if the walk signal is lit, and not legal for a pedestrian to begin crossing after a “don’t walk” hand begins to flash. Regardless of whether or not a countdown is showing, in either case. But practically, this law is ridiculous, both for the reason you mention and because it takes maybe two seconds for a fit person to sprint across most crosswalks. I believe that bicycles on the trail are considered pedestrians for the purposes of this law, which makes it even more ridiculous. Just another example of our laws and roadway designs prioritizing automobile travel while offering everyone else table scraps.

@oldbikechick 112346 wrote:

Or, maybe the guy was just being a jerk?

These things are not mutually exclusive

[baiskeli]

The countdown is irrelevant – it’s whether the sign says “Walk” or “Don’t walk” – by showing the words, or a symbol, and/or the color red or green.

If it’s green or says walk, you can enter the intersection. If it is red or says don’t walk, you’re supposed to not enter the intersection, but if you already have, you can continue through it.

The countdown was intended just to tell people how much time they have to proceed through the intersection with a don’t walk signal. The function is much like a yellow light for drivers. However, I’ve seen some countdowns start while the light is still green or there is still a walk signal.

(Yes, I know there are lawyers and judges who have messed around with what to me is a pretty obvious reading of the law in question – this is how I feel the law should be interpreted, even if it might not be).

The problem with countdowns is that people figure if they have enough time to make it to the other side, they can start crossing, even if it’s well into the don’t walk/red cycle. Even if that is safe, it messes up the intention of the traffic flow sometimes. This is made much worse with cycling because we CAN make it across even with a few seconds left, so we use the crosswalk right up to the very end of the cycle, which isn’t a big deal unless there is crossing traffic trying to get through on a right turn. And that’s one problem at the Intersection of Doom, since alot of car traffic is turning right to get to the bridge. I think we need to change the timing so that there’s a period when cars have the green but not pedestrians, as well as the reverse with the recent no-turn-on-red signal, to ease the pressure from traffic turning right and keep cyclists and pedestrians out of their path for a short period so they can make it through.
Most countdowns

[dasgeh]

@scoot 112358 wrote:

Technically it’s legal to enter the crosswalk if the walk signal is lit, and not legal for a pedestrian to begin crossing after a “don’t walk” hand begins to flash.

You’ve cited the correct section of law, but your interpretation is not settled law. It all depends on whether the blinking-hand-with-countdown means “Don’t Walk” or something else. This section of code was written before the existence of the blinking-hand-with-countdown light. VDOT documents make it unclear what the blinking-hand-with-countdown means. And Arlington engineers think that it’s legal to enter the crosswalk with the blinking-hand-with-countdown, and have designed the intersection assuming such. At least some in ACPD think that it’s not legal to enter the crosswalk with the blinking-hand-with-countdown.

In other words, there is no clear answer on this one. We really, really, really need a bike signal here. I believe it’s part of the plan for the “Lee Hwy Esplanade, etc etc” project, but it couldn’t hurt to write in to advocate for putting a bike signal in sooner than later.

[kcb203]

As an aside, Arlington County seems to think the stop sign at the Marriott entrance is legitimate.

https://seeclickfix.com/issues/638919

[mstone]

@kcb203 112452 wrote:

As an aside, Arlington County seems to think the stop sign at the Marriott entrance is legitimate.

https://seeclickfix.com/issues/638919

Of course they do. Getting drivers to change behavior by adding signage is inconceivable, but if they put up a sign for pedestrians/cyclists, they get to wash their hands of the matter.

[scoot]

@kcb203 112452 wrote:

As an aside, Arlington County seems to think the stop sign at the Marriott entrance is legitimate.

https://seeclickfix.com/issues/638919

That is ridiculous. It’s not even a road, it’s a private driveway.

[americancyclo]

@kcb203 112452 wrote:

As an aside, Arlington County seems to think the stop sign at the Marriott entrance is legitimate.

https://seeclickfix.com/issues/638919

They’ve also put up stop signs for the uses of the ABT. What the hell?

[rcannon100]

@kcb203 112452 wrote:

As an aside, Arlington County seems to think the stop sign at the Marriott entrance is legitimate.

https://seeclickfix.com/issues/638919

They didnt say it was legitimate. They said they would not remove it. Not the same thing. Pretty sure the sign is utterly unenforceable – in fact, I believe its not even a sign (it does not meet the requirements of an official stop sign). There were other stop signs in this track that Arlco did in fact remove (after a cyclists got hit and then ticketed for running a non-legal stop sign)

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