Lynn/Lee Intersection of Doom Medium-Term Fixes

[dasgeh]

Btw, obstruction was gone by 545pm. Not that it makes it ok, just putting this here for posterity

[baiskeli]

A motorist ignoring or not noticing the no turn on red sign cut me off yesterday.

[rcannon100]

Well guess who showed up at IoD this morning!

[Terpfan]

@rcannon100 111147 wrote:

Well guess who showed up at IoD this morning!

I plugged in my camera to see if I had a screenshot of the officer, but since I’m coming from MVT, too many cars at that level blocking camera view. He was sharply watching for offenders this morning and had a woman pulled over when I rolled by.

[KWL]

@baiskeli 111143 wrote:

A motorist ignoring or not noticing the no turn on red sign cut me off yesterday.

I drove the IOD from the I-66 ramp recently. That no turn on red sign does not stand out very well. It is attached to the signal arm, in line with three signals what will be red when it is effective, has some red in its lights itself and the arm is up pretty high. I was looking for it and thought it blended in too much. Perhaps it should flash.

[wheelswings]

@KWL 111174 wrote:

I drove the IOD from the I-66 ramp recently. That no turn on red sign does not stand out very well. It is attached to the signal arm, in line with three signals what will be red when it is effective, has some red in its lights itself and the arm is up pretty high. I was looking for it and thought it blended in too much. Perhaps it should flash.

Agree that the no-turn signal is puny and hard to see. We raised concerns when speaking with the ACPD at the March BAC meeting. They were sympathetic. They told us that the sign is not even legally enforceable. So it’s mainly just for show, but since it doesn’t show up…. sigh.

[Terpfan]

@wheels&wings 111175 wrote:

Agree that the no-turn signal is puny and hard to see. We raised concerns when speaking with the ACPD at the March BAC meeting. They were sympathetic. They told us that the sign is not even legally enforceable. So it’s mainly just for show, but since it doesn’t show up…. sigh.

It reminds me of the opposite problem in Alexandria, which is signs that say no turn on red and then below them in a non-reflective sign and smaller print, it says “when pedestrians are present.” It works to my advantage when riding so I don’t complain, but I do always wonder if they intentionally screwed it up that way.

[ShawnoftheDread]

It should be a red arrow in the signal. Flashing yellow when cars from 66 have the light, steady red during the leading pedestrian indicator, and flashing red when Lynn has the light.

[jrenaut]

@wheels&wings 111175 wrote:

…They told us that the sign is not even legally enforceable…

Wait, what? It should be illegal to put up a sign that isn’t legally enforceable. They took years of cyclists complaining about one of the most dangerous intersections in the area and decided the best solution was a sign with zero legal weight?

[baiskeli]

@KWL 111174 wrote:

I drove the IOD from the I-66 ramp recently. That no turn on red sign does not stand out very well. It is attached to the signal arm, in line with three signals what will be red when it is effective, has some red in its lights itself and the arm is up pretty high. I was looking for it and thought it blended in too much. Perhaps it should flash.

I agree – it’s hard to notice. Maybe it needs to be right next to or under the light controlling the right lane.

[baiskeli]

@ShawnoftheDread 111181 wrote:

It should be a red arrow in the signal. Flashing yellow when cars from 66 have the light, steady red during the leading pedestrian indicator, and flashing red when Lynn has the light.

Yep.

[wheelswings]

@jrenaut 111182 wrote:

Wait, what? It should be illegal to put up a sign that isn’t legally enforceable. They took years of cyclists complaining about one of the most dangerous intersections in the area and decided the best solution was a sign with zero legal weight?

I was stunned, too. I asked them, why not and what would it take to make it enforceable?

Apparently there are various size and location rules for enforceable signals. The ACPD officers were not sure why Arlington installed this itty-bitty non-enforceable signal. And unfortunately we did not have the right Arlington County representatives in the room to answer those questions.

The police officers said, however, that at certain intersections non-enforceable signs are the only thing that’s allowed due to various regulations… so sometimes they are better than nothing… assuming the drivers can actually see them.

It would be worth digging deeper and finding out precisely what it would take to get a prominent, enforceable no-right-turn-on-red signal at Lynn/Lee.

[rcannon100]

@wheels&wings 111175 wrote:

Agree that the no-turn signal is puny and hard to see. We raised concerns when speaking with the ACPD at the March BAC meeting. They were sympathetic. They told us that the sign is not even legally enforceable. So it’s mainly just for show, but since it doesn’t show up…. sigh.

Out of curiosity, is there any official record of the popo saying that? Like even official minutes of the meeting. Because the popo saying that the sign is unenforceable – that might be interesting if public.

[dasgeh]

@wheels&wings 111187 wrote:

It would be worth digging deeper and finding out precisely what it would take to get a prominent, enforceable no-right-turn-on-red signal at Lynn/Lee.

Deeper digging is happening. Various schedules mean shovels won’t move for at least another week and a half

@rcannon100 111188 wrote:

Out of curiosity, is there any official record of the popo saying that? Like even official minutes of the meeting. Because the popo saying that the sign is unenforceable – that might be interesting if public.

The draft minutes are not out yet, and will not be approved until the next meeting. Not that one statement by one officer at a community meeting would carry the day in court.

@ShawnoftheDread 111181 wrote:

It should be a red arrow in the signal. Flashing yellow when cars from 66 have the light, steady red during the leading pedestrian indicator, and flashing red when Lynn has the light.

Not sure whether this is enforceable either. We’d have to look at VA Code.

[wheelswings]

Yup. dbb keeps the minutes, and we approve them at the next-month’s meeting. I think as a first step it would be worth our while to find out exactly what these [county? state? federal?] regulations say about siting traffic signals.

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