Looking for Support to convert Glen Echo Trolley Trail in Palisades to a bike trail

[GB]

Can you post a map of the planned route? At the moment I don’t understand how it will be much different from the Capital Crescent Trail. But the CCT is a great trail, so having a second similar trail couldn’t hurt. Thanks.

[jojopuppyfish]

@GregBain 66506 wrote:

Can you post a map of the planned route? At the moment I don’t understand how it will be much different from the Capital Crescent Trail. But the CCT is a great trail, so having a second similar trail couldn’t hurt. Thanks.

Here is a link to a website that maps the old trolley trail.
http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Cabin-John-Trolley-Route
Start with the red dot on that map. The uninterrupted trail goes north until Galena PL….at which that point it becomes a neighborhood. Riding through the neighborhood down Sherrier to the end at Norton, then make a left and go to the end, there is currently a small bike path (shown on my video) that connects to the Crescent trail.
3 bridges would need to be built (as mentioned in the video) and the Trolley Bridge in Foundry Branch Valley Park would need to be retrofitted.
It would be different than the Crescent trail because it would go directly into Georgetown University and further onto to upper portion of Georgetown. at 37th and Prospect Street.

[rcannon100]

Who would pay for this? Whose land is it currently? Wouldnt the bridges be relatively expensive to build?

You can do this already on MUT using the CCT and MacArthur, or using C&O. So this would be a third overlay MUT?

[jojopuppyfish]

@rcannon100 66508 wrote:

Who would pay for this? Whose land is it currently? Wouldnt the bridges be relatively expensive to build?

You can do this already on MUT using the CCT and MacArthur, or using C&O. So this would be a third overlay MUT?

1) DDOT has a program in place for Applications to build trails in the DC area
http://ddot.dc.gov/DC/DDOT/On+Your+Street/Bicycles+and+Pedestrians/Trails

2)Whose land is it currently?
The foxhall bridge is owned by WMATA
The rest is owned by DC up until the Maryland border.

3) Wouldnt the bridges be relatively expensive to build?
According to a rep at the DDOT its possible there is money to eventually build this trail. Its more a question of support of bicyclists and the local community of Palisades

4) You can do this already on MUT using the CCT and MacArthur, or using C&O. So this would be a third overlay MUT?
I don’t know what MUT stands for, but I think I understand the question. You are saying one trail will kind of get you to the same destination.
Not really. If you took a car from Potomac via Canal rd or stayed on River road, both would get you to DC but not the same place in DC.
In other words, the trail I am proposing goes directly into Georgtown university and upper Georgetown. The C&O doesn’t do that. It connects to below the Whitehurst freeway
In addition while a bicyclist could take Mcarthur blvd north and south, the trolley trail is a much wider path and mostly interrupted by traffic lights and cars.

Currently if you want to take Mcarthur Blvd to Georgetown, you either ride on the actual street (not safe at all) or you ride on the sidewalk which is very narrow, and has a fire hydrant and several Streetlight polls….along with people walking on this sidewalk.
Retrofitting the Foxhall bridge would alleviate this.
BTW CCT is already quite crowded. A new trail would alleviate some of this.

BTW can you tell me what MUT stands for?

[jojopuppyfish]

I figured out what MUT stands for….Multi use trails.
So now I understand the question better.
Its not the same thing as the CCT or the C&0.

Its more similar as a substitute to MCarthur Blvd.
Why McArthur Blvd has problems
1) No actually trail on Mcarthur Blvd starting at Norton going south. Its all riding on the street with the cars.
2) Not safe for kids
3) For Adults, there is very narrow space between parked cars and cars that are riding on street along with bicycle
4) Many traffic lights and cross traffic
5) Bad for commuting into dc during rush hour
6) Going south to Foxhall, sidewalk is narrow and sharing road with cars is unsafe.

C&0 and CCT parallel each other. THis trail is parallel to Mcarthur Blvd and just south of it.
C&O and CCT go east-west and towards Georgetown, it takes you into the waterfront of Georgetown under the Whitehurst Freeway. If you wanted to go to Georgtown University from CCT, its a big pain.
You’d have to ride up a hill.

[lordofthemark]

The main difference between this and CCT/C&O is that being northeast of the C&O canal itself it would be more accessible from several neighborhoods in NW DC (I confess to not knowing that area well.)

I don’t see anything about it on WashCycle, which is surprising if David Cranor is involved – though he hasn’t been doing as much with that blog lately, I guess.

[jojopuppyfish]

@lordofthemark 66515 wrote:

The main difference between this and CCT/C&O is that being northeast of the C&O canal itself it would be more accessible from several neighborhoods in NW DC (I confess to not knowing that area well.)

I don’t see anything about it on WashCycle, which is surprising if David Cranor is involved – though he hasn’t been doing as much with that blog lately, I guess.

So the quick story is that David did an article about this 4 years ago here
http://www.thewashcycle.com/2008/12/2008-cwl-2-cabin-john-trolley.html

He then proceeded to work with PCA (Palisades Citzens association) on this for awhile but ran into some obstacles. I think in retrospect his timing might have been off. Bicycling in DC has come a long way in 4 years. The CCT use has exploded. And residents that might have been apprehensive back then might now come around and see what building a trail might do for them

So David is just giving me advice right now as he has vast experience dealing with this project.

[jojopuppyfish]

After talking with David, we are going to concentrate on the bike path where the Foundry Branch Bridge is. This connects Foxhall to Georgetown University
Here is a link to some pictures I took of it online.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jojopuppyfish/sets/72157636553295066/

And what follows are some of the pictures:

DSC_0327 by

DSC_0321 by , on Flickr

[dasgeh]

I’m only familiar with the Eastern part of the route, but I think this is a GREAT idea. I recently biked with my family from the Zoo back to Arlington, and the safest route is actually through Georgetown. However, getting from the Canal Road exit to the Key Bridge is super dangerous. Looks like this trail would help. It would also make the connection from Arlington (via Key Bridge) to NW a lot safer and easier for those not wanting to brave the traffic (read: families on bikes).

A couple thoughts:

1) You describe staying up the hill, ending at 37th & Prospect. The map you linked to looks to have the trail at the bottom of the hill, closer to M/Canal. I’m pretty sure the latter (down the hill) would be more useful — you can already bike through Georgetown on calm roads. Being able to safely get from the GU Canal Road entrance to Key Bridge would be crucial.

2) Many cyclists already do something close to this route, and if you can keep speed, it’s not too bad. So your target market is the slower crowd, e.g. families. Make sure you design the trail to accommodate longer, wider bikes (cargo bikes, bikes with trailers, etc). Steep hills, sharp bends, bad curb cuts make the trail unusable.

[jojopuppyfish]

@dasgeh
If you are going over the key bridge from Arlington, retrofitting the bridge I am proposing isn’t going to help you. Going over the key bridge, you would a) want to go towards palisades and along the sidewalk there is an underground tunnel that connects to both the C & o Trail and the crescent trail….and b) if you want to go to the upper portion of georgetown, you’d have to climb one of those hills to get to the top.

The bridge is meant for People in upper georgetown connecting to the Palisades area.

Right now, the big problem is that the sidewalk is too narrow, with fire hydrant and Street lamps on some of the sidewalk. In addition going west to east, to get to Georgetown university, you’d have to either go down the sidewalk then back up or take Resevoir rd which is also hilly.
The bridge is perfect because 1) Its at grade (no hills to climb 2) its there and just needs to be retrofitted.

Here is a good link that shows the overhead view of what I am talking about
http://virtualglobetrotting.com/map/washington-great-falls-electric-railway-bridge-over-foundry-branch-abandoned/view/?service=1

And here is a google map…..the bridge is right where Foundry Branch Valley Park is
http://goo.gl/maps/edxJm

[dasgeh]

@jojopuppyfish 66686 wrote:

@dasgeh
If you are going over the key bridge from Arlington, retrofitting the bridge I am proposing isn’t going to help you. Going over the key bridge, you would a) want to go towards palisades and along the sidewalk there is an underground tunnel that connects to both the C & o Trail and the crescent trail….and b) if you want to go to the upper portion of georgetown, you’d have to climb one of those hills to get to the top.

So you’re only talking about the bridge and not a trail to get to it from GU/Key Bridge? That’s not very helpful.

And yes, I realize to get north of M street you have to go up hill. When you’re piloting a cargo bike, there’s a big difference between, e.g. the driveway into GU from Canal and 34th St NW from M.

[jojopuppyfish]

“So you’re only talking about the bridge and not a trail to get to it from GU/Key Bridge? That’s not very helpful. “
Let’s restate what you wrote. This bridge wont help you, coming from Arlington Virginia going over the Key bridge into Georgetown. You want a connection from the Key bridge to the CEO Canal and/or the Crescent trail. You can do that two ways
Getting off the Key bridge
1) Make a right
You can get to here and go on the C & O canal
http://goo.gl/maps/aFq1g

2) Make a left once crossing the street. Take the sidewalk til you get to the tunnel and go underneath the C & O canal and you can ride the C & O or the crescent trail

3) If you are at GU and you want a bridge to go directly to the Key Bridge, that will not happen ever. Especially since you can carry your bike up the Exorcist steps

For People who live in Maryland and DC people retrofitting the bridge will be helpful. For people living in Arlington the bridge is irrelevant unless once you are actually on the GU campus and would like to ride towards palisades then it will help you. If we get more support from PCA we can extend the trail all the way to the Crescent trail connecting where Norton is next to the Dalecarlia Resevoir.

[TimBoucher]

I cycle from the Glen Echo (Bannockburn Rd) area every day for work (to Key Bridge, and into Arlington), and would be very interested in helping get this trail built. I don’t enjoy the MacArthur road trail – way too close to traffic for my liking.

Let me know if you need help.

Thanks
Tim

[TimBoucher]

one issue is in the little falls area – do you envision the trail join up with the CCT at the Dalecarlia waterworks? At the moment your map shows is running slap bang through the middle of it…

Tim

[dasgeh]

@jojopuppyfish 66703 wrote:

“So you’re only talking about the bridge and not a trail to get to it from GU/Key Bridge? That’s not very helpful. “
Let’s restate what you wrote. This bridge wont help you, coming from Arlington Virginia going over the Key bridge into Georgetown. You want a connection from the Key bridge to the CEO Canal and/or the Crescent trail.

No, that’s not what I wrote. I am not talking about a new connection to the C&O Canal or the CCT. I am familiar with those options. I am interested in a safe connection to the area NW of the Key Bridge. Right now, there’s only a substandard sidewalk from the Bridge to the Western entrance to GU. You posted a link to a map that implied you were interested in a trail from M to this bridge that I don’t know if anyone will use (as lots of others have pointed out). I do think a lot of people will use a trail/MUP/MUT/enhanced sidewalk that goes from Key Bridge at least to GU, and probably farther. These people could help you support your project.

But, hey, if you don’t want support for your project, you’re doing a fine job turning potential constituencies away.

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