Let’s talk about Rosslyn

[Kolohe]

Is there a concrete plan to improve the ‘intersection of death’ (Lynn & Lee Highway)? It’s not entirely clear from the supporting docs you link (and that intersection is either right at the edge or outside some of the drawn boundaries on the various slides)

Or is the vision to just obviate the need for improvements by creating a new connection to the MVT (and TR Bridge) via the 19th/Ridge Road master project?

[DismalScientist]

I don’t like counterflow or two way cycletracks. The right side of northbound Lynn is busy enough.

[PotomacCyclist]

What about the proposed leasing of the air space above I-66 in Rosslyn? The VA state gov’t. has proposed making that available for development, in order to raise revenue for transportation improvements. While it seems that money could go toward funding a new Rosslyn-DC Metro tunnel (to Georgetown?), part of any funds could go to an improved MVT-Custis Trail-Lynn St. crossing.

http://www.arlnow.com/2013/07/03/va-proposes-development-over-i-66/

I know none of this is going to happen soon, if ever, but it could be a great way to provide a real fix for the Lynn St. intersection. Perhaps a future developer could contribute funds for a bike/pedestrian bridge as an alternate crossing of Lynn St. and perhaps Lee Hwy. too. The MVT could split off before reaching Lynn St. A street-level path could remain for those turning north to Key Bridge. The alternate path could go over a bike bridge or bridges, crossing Lynn St. and another bridge crossing Lee Hwy.

If this or similar proposals were brought up for long-term planning, then the state and Arlington could include such designs in the negotiations with a future developer. Those air rights should be valuable. The buildings would have a prominent location with views of Georgetown, the Kennedy Center and the National Mall. Occupants have easy access to the nearby Metro station, which will be serviced by three lines (incl. the Silver Line next year).

[dasgeh]

Thanks, Chris!

My wish list for Rosslyn, in order of priority (and aside from above):
1) Fix Lynn/Lee
2) Separate bikes from others along the Custis sidewalk
3) Rosslyn – GWMP – Spout Run connection
4) Improve the connection from the Iwo Jima to N. Meade Street
5) Improve Key Blvd — Key Blvd/Scott St (or 18th St, if that becomes a bike/ped street through Rosslyn) connection

I am SO EXCITED about the possibility of connecting the Iwo Jima to the South side of the TR Bridge. Awesome sauce.

[chris_s]

@Kolohe 69591 wrote:

Is there a concrete plan to improve the ‘intersection of death’ (Lynn & Lee Highway)? It’s not entirely clear from the supporting docs you link (and that intersection is either right at the edge or outside some of the drawn boundaries on the various slides)

Or is the vision to just obviate the need for improvements by creating a new connection to the MVT (and TR Bridge) via the 19th/Ridge Road master project?

To the best of my knowledge the plan currently doesn’t address much in regard to the Lee & Lynn intersection, though additional trail connections could certainly help reduce the # of people who need to use it. This is definitely already on the list of issues to push on.

[rcannon100]

1. Fix the Intersection of Doom
2. See #1
3. See #1
4. See #1
5. See #1
6. See #1
7. See #1
8. See #1
9. See #1
10. See #1

[chris_s]

@DismalScientist 69596 wrote:

I don’t like counterflow or two way cycletracks. The right side of northbound Lynn is busy enough.

Because of the two-waying of Lynn and Ft Myer, I don’t believe any of the cycletracks proposed could be described as counterflow or contra-flow. Are you completely against two-way cycle tracks, or only against them when they are on a one-way street? Or only against them when both directions are on the same side of the street? Or some combination? In general, just give me some more detail Dismal!

[chris_s]

@PotomacCyclist 69609 wrote:

What about the proposed leasing of the air space above I-66 in Rosslyn? The VA state gov’t. has proposed making that available for development, in order to raise revenue for transportation improvements. While it seems that money could go toward funding a new Rosslyn-DC Metro tunnel (to Georgetown?), part of any funds could go to an improved MVT-Custis Trail-Lynn St. crossing.

I’m going to put in a question about this. I know the study is aware of the air-rights RFP, but I’m not sure to what extent they are accounting for it. I agree that it may be our best shot at a real solution for Lee & Lynn.

[chris_s]

@dasgeh 69612 wrote:

2) Separate bikes from others along the Custis sidewalk

How do other folks feel about this? I know there are other cities that have tried this. Anybody have successful models they can point to? PReferably with links and photos and data and whatnot?

@dasgeh 69612 wrote:

3) Rosslyn – GWMP – Spout Run connection

I believe I know the kind of connection/route you’re suggesting here and that it has been deemed infeasible in the past (when they were looking at continuing the MVT all the way through Arlington) as too expensive / too environmentally destructive / too historical viewshed-destroying. Would love to hear more detail though. Perhaps it’s different or perhaps things have changed.

@dasgeh 69612 wrote:

4) Improve the connection from the Iwo Jima to N. Meade Street

This would seem to fit in perfectly with many of those goals of the sector plan. Can you/others outline the problems with this connection as you see them now?

@dasgeh 69612 wrote:

5) Improve Key Blvd — Key Blvd/Scott St (or 18th St, if that becomes a bike/ped street through Rosslyn) connection

By “improve” are we talking like bike lanes all along? Or some sort of Bicycle Boulevard treatment? Or are you kinda open to whatever staff thinks might be best in that regard? My biggest issue with that connection is the crazy steepness of the trail section that connects the two pieces of Key Blvd and I’m ‘not sure what a good alternative is there. I don’t really have a big issue with Key east of there.

[DismalScientist]

I don’t like two-way cycletracks when they are on the same side of the street because a single lane of bicycle traffic is going the opposite direction of automotive traffic. I think drivers don’t expect traffic going the “wrong” way, which is problematic especially when turning. Furthermore, obstructions in the cycletrack may lead cyclists into wrong way traffic with high closing speeds. Obviously, there would be the same problem with a two lane cycletrack on a one way street or a contraflow lane on a one way street.

Separation of a cycletrack with barriers (such as parked cars or other large objects) seem to me to cause potential conflict at intersections, particularly when these objects obscure vision. Separated cycletracks see to me to be analogous to riding bicycles on sidewalks with problems at intersections. Putting the two way cycletrack in the middle of the road (a la Pennsylvania Ave) seems better, although it violates the general notion that bicycles, which tend to go more slowly than cars, should be on the right. In this situation, I would prefer one way cycletracks (or bike lanes) on the right side of the road.

As a hopeless vehicular cyclist, I don’t particularly have a preference between a cycletrack with flexible pylons, a bike lane, or a wider “normal” right lane. I realize that this is a somewhat unpopular opinion here as there is this notion that cycletracks seems safer and encourage more cycling. In my opinion, many cycletracks when implemented seem to introduce more potential vehicle conflicts.

Specifically, on Lynn Street, I would suggest a northbound bike lane all the way across the bridge over 66 with an easier curb cut to both the northbound sidewalk on the Key Bridge and over to the Mount Vernon Trail. I would put a wider sidewalk on the east side of Lynn to accommodate both pedestrians and southbound cyclists. Lastly, I would try to figure out some way that southbound cyclists do not cross the entrance and exit ramps to 66 and other cross streets too much more quickly than would be expected by a pedestrian using the cross walk. If southbound cyclists don’t want to take that sidewalk, they can always take Fort Meyer.

I am having a hard time visualizing a two way Lynn Street. Is there an adequate way of funneling all that car traffic to the Key Bridge?

[GB]

@DismalScientist 69627 wrote:

I would prefer one way cycletracks (or bike lanes) on the right side of the road.

Me too.

Any chance that the sidewalk on the TR bridge is in the scope of the Rosslyn improvement project? It really should be wider and or separated from traffic with a higher fence.

[chris_s]

@GregBain 69628 wrote:

Me too.

Me three.

@GregBain 69628 wrote:

Any chance that the sidewalk on the TR bridge is in the scope of the Rosslyn improvement project? It really should be wider and or separated from traffic with a higher fence.

Definitely not anything Arlington has much say in. Probably DDOT, NPS or FHWA.

[bobco85]

I checked out all the presentations that chris_s linked to, and I must say I really like the ideas of the Green Circle, 18th Street corridor, and having alternate routes to the MVT. I am curious as to how efficiently the traffic on two-way Lynn Street and Fort Myer Drive will flow, although I do understand they will each have slower (read: “safer” for cyclists) speeds.

The Lynn/Lee intersection looks unchanged, though, which would be my only disappointment from this. Heck, if I had my way, I’d just close the exit ramp off I-66 altogether and solve the whole problem of the danger for cyclists/pedestrians. Important note: I am not and have never been a transportation engineer, probably for the good of drivers everywhere

For another look, here’s a cropped image taken from page 20 of one of the pdf’s that chris_s linked to:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4090[/ATTACH]

[Kolohe]

@chris_s 69622 wrote:

4) Improve the connection from the Iwo Jima to N. Meade Street

This would seem to fit in perfectly with many of those goals of the sector plan. Can you/others outline the problems with this connection as you see them now?

It’s somewhat a similar problem to the intersection of doom, in that the bike ‘thruway’ goes right in the middle of a major highway interchange. (though maybe more like the Memorial bridge connections on both sides of the river?)

The (newish) bike lane on Meade goes away just before this point http://goo.gl/maps/8LlWY and you’re then on the left of relatively high speed traffic coming off the ramp from eastbound 50.

Then you got to get over to the right again at this ramp from westbound 50 http://goo.gl/maps/e2KPq – though the bollards help a little as well as the traffic backups that come from the light at the intersection of Fairfax drive which slows things down.

what has helped it that they occasionally put a temporary traffic light here http://goo.gl/maps/GJ05I (I think a couple weeks before the July 4 fireworks – or it may have just been for construction and resurfacing last year) which slows things down too.

I am perhaps missing the hyperliteral reading of this point, though it is correct – when coming around the Iwo Jima circle, there’s a narrow ADA ramp here: http://goo.gl/maps/Ytnu3 but otherwise one has to go all the way around to the side of the circle http://goo.gl/maps/oU4MH, closest to the Netherlands Clario…, Calrio…, Carli… … – the Dutch Big Bell Thing. Or go all the way up John Marshall to the Ft Myer gate and then onto Meade. So a better way of cutting through would save a good many minutes and some distance.

[dasgeh]

@chris_s 69622 wrote:

4) Improve the connection from the Iwo Jima to N. Meade Street

This would seem to fit in perfectly with many of those goals of the sector plan. Can you/others outline the problems with this connection as you see them now?

I agree with Kolohe on the need for better bike facilities on N Meade. When I originally wrote this, I was just thinking of the need to have a better way to get from the road around Iwo Jima to N. Meade. The most obvious solution, in my mind, is to build a better ramp along the south side of the ramp from N Meade to 50E. So bikes coming from Marshall Dr would take the (hopefully soon repaved) road into the Iwo Jima Memorial, then turn right onto the circle with cars, then continue onto a new ramp that take bikes up to N Meade. Bonus points if there’s a light at the top of that new ramp, so bikes can safely continue on the 50 service road and onto the new trail along 27.

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