Legitimacy of Stop Sign on Custis outside Marriott?

[NicDiesel]

You guys really need to logout and go for a ride. Beers are on Dickie.

[dasgeh]

@Steve 58249 wrote:

To piggy back, and correct me if I’m wrong, but the VA legislature really only made it legal for local governments to make a law allowing for stop signs on the trail. So stop signs on trails are legal only when a local ordinance creates a law that says that they are legitimate stop signs. This may get interesting on the W&OD, where Arlington is unlikely to pass a law for stop signs, but someone like, say, Loudon County might make such a law.

That’s what I meant by “limited situations”. Going off of memory, for a stop sign on a trail to be legal: 1) the street it’s crossing has to have a speed limit of 35+ (45+?); 2) the locality has to authorize it; 3) VDOT has to bless the signage (have they done that?). It’s dumb for lots of reasons, including the one you mentioned. Also, it didn’t address the question of the right of way once a trail-user has stopped. So it seems like if you’re on an MUP, 1-3 above are satisfied, and there’s a stop sign, you can stop, then proceed into the road, and you should still have ROW. Oh, and it didn’t define “stopping”, which for a ped is not as obvious as one might think.

[baiskeli]

@NicDiesel 58272 wrote:

You guys really need to logout and go for a ride.

I know. It’s all just talk, but it’s useful if I run into a conflict out there in the real world, like a collision or ranting idiot. I’ve learned a whole lot from these discussions to prepare me for that. Hope it never happens though.

Beers are on Dickie.

Hey, awesome! Thanks Dickie!

[dasgeh]

@baiskeli 58271 wrote:

But you said yourself it’s very clear – cars must yield. What more is there to say or know?

As for disregarding danger, the problem is that both cars and bikes often disregard danger anyway, with both warning and regulatory signs. Not sure what to do about that except completely redesign an intersection like that one.

Warning signs help people who are otherwise unfamiliar with a location have more information about the location. I go through there every day. I know there’s a driveway there. I know to look for idiot drivers of Georgetown buses turning right. I know to slow down until I can see into the parking lot. BUT, lots of people go through there who don’t do it every day. So a heads up to tell them “hey, there’s a driveway exit coming up after that big concrete pillar” isn’t a bad idea.

Of course, there is a curb cut, so it shouldn’t be a shocker that there’s a driveway there. Which is why I don’t think it’s all that important to replace the stop signs with warning signs (for trail users). I do think it’s very important to get rid of the stop signs.

Also, that driveway is for a hotel. There are lots of drivers using it who are unfamiliar with the area. I see lots of them surprised that so many peds and bikes are crossing in front of them. Warning signs for them make a LOT of sense.

Finally, I agree with the suggestion on the first page that a redesign is in order — either make that driveway enter-only (sightlines wouldn’t be an issue), or get rid of it entirely. But that’s a LT solution. Taking down the stop signs can and should be done today. New warning signs can and should be put up in a few weeks.

[dbb]

@dasgeh 58273 wrote:

Oh, and it didn’t define “stopping”, which for a ped is not as obvious as one might think.

Why not use the Park Police definition of foot down? Levitation has been outlawed! The world is again right.

[baiskeli]

@dasgeh 58273 wrote:

the street it’s crossing has to have a speed limit of 35+ (45+?);

That can’t be right – think of all the 25 mph streets with stop signs on crossing streets.

[baiskeli]

@dasgeh 58280 wrote:

Warning signs help people who are otherwise unfamiliar with a location have more information about the location. I go through there every day. I know there’s a driveway there. I know to look for idiot drivers of Georgetown buses turning right. I know to slow down until I can see into the parking lot. BUT, lots of people go through there who don’t do it every day. So a heads up to tell them “hey, there’s a driveway exit coming up after that big concrete pillar” isn’t a bad idea.

Definitely not a bad idea.

Also, that driveway is for a hotel. There are lots of drivers using it who are unfamiliar with the area. I see lots of them surprised that so many peds and bikes are crossing in front of them. Warning signs for them make a LOT of sense.

Exactly. The biggest problem there is that cars exiting there may not realize there are bikes coming fast down that trail rather than just slow pedestrians, and they can’t see them coming anyway. That’s hard to convey on a warning sign for bikes (“Blind Intersection”?) A warning sign for cars is a great idea.

[mstone]

@baiskeli 58282 wrote:

That can’t be right – think of all the 25 mph streets with stop signs on crossing streets.

she’s talking about the rules for pedestrian stop signs

[baiskeli]

@mstone 58290 wrote:

she’s talking about the rules for pedestrian stop signs

Ah, okay, thanks.

[ebubar]

I go through that area occasionally. Lately its been in the evenings around 10 PM. I, personally, always slow down and stop at any and all stop signs because I have a deep seeded mistrust of cars. They either don’t look for me or they seemingly try to aim for me. By stopping I lose my momentum in a lot of inconvenient places (yeah it sucks), but I think that I improve the chances of me not being hit by some idiot driver. So as dumb as the stop sign is, I still obey it (and would likely slow down a good bit or stop without it there) because I sadly don’t trust cars.

We should put up a little “duck crossing” sign pointing at the cars leaving the lot. What kind of person would gun their car out of there at the chance of hitting a poor defenseless duckling?

Now that my thinking cap is on, we should put up a kitten crossing sign. Pair that with an LCD screen showing cute youtube videos of kittens doing funny things. Cars and bicyclists alike could stop and delight in adorable kitten antics!

[napes]

Or for the sake of something different, how about any of these instead of the silly stop signs?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3316[/ATTACH]

[ebubar]

@napes 58307 wrote:

Or for the sake of something different, how about any of these instead of the silly stop signs?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3316[/ATTACH]

As a physics prof, i’d like to double elite the momentum sign.

[baiskeli]

@ebubar 58312 wrote:

As a physics prof, i’d like to double elite the momentum sign.

Yes! Laws of physics! Wooohooo!

[Brendan von Buckingham]

The answer was mentioned before, but if the sign is not legitimate why can’t it just be taken down by anybody. If it went up illegitimately, take it down illegitimately. That “anybody” just better be completly sure it in fact is illegitimate, becuase I bet the penalties for taking down a legitimate sign are pretty steep.

[DismalScientist]

Even if the sign is illegal, it probably doesn’t mean that it can be taken down by anybody. I think people have gotten in trouble for removing illegally placed political signs that are not owned by them.

[Author]

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