Left turn on red on 15th NW – what in the world is wrong with people?

[PotomacCyclist]

Unfortunately you could say the same thing about many other intersections and roads in the region. When I’m walking through crosswalks after the light changes to green, many car drivers think they have absolute right of way to make a left turn, whether or not there are pedestrians in the crosswalk. (I’m referring to the crosswalk in the same direction as the car traffic, not the crosswalk intersecting the car traffic.) Many drivers will just barrel through and expect pedestrians (who are already in the crosswalk) to jump or scurry out of the way.

Not that there aren’t a lot of people who also jaywalk too. But the jaywalkers aren’t the ones killing and maiming people every day.

[jrenaut]

I don’t mean when there’s a green light to go straight and the implied yield-to-turn-left. I mean when there is a red arrow specifically telling you not to turn left.

Not that either one is legal.

[UrbanEngineer]

I see just as many cyclists blow through those lights (as in not shoulder check for turning traffic at all) when there is a green turn arrow as I do cars turning on red. It’s a bit of a problem. I’ve stopped next to motor vehicles and pointed out the red arrow on multiple occasions and I’ve caught up to cyclists to point out the follow the pedestrian signal signage. Not sure where the disconnect is for drivers, as their signage is standard. For the cyclists, the follow the pedestrian signal signage is a bit unique, and those I’ve caught up to seemed to genuinely not know. I can’t imagine anybody on a bike willingly putting themselves in this position (http://youtu.be/KvYFhBR3fXs). With the red light turning traffic, that’s the exact position the drivers are putting us in.

[dbb]

Three US Cap Police bike officers were heading west on the Pennsylvania Ave cycletrack when two merged into traffic and went right on 7th or 9th and the third, who stayed in the cycletrack blew into the intersection (on red) and then cut to the north to catch up with the other two.

And I thought I was going to have a shoal report!

[jrenaut]

@UrbanEngineer 62312 wrote:

I see just as many cyclists blow through those lights (as in not shoulder check for turning traffic at all) when there is a green turn arrow as I do cars turning on red. It’s a bit of a problem. I’ve stopped next to motor vehicles and pointed out the red arrow on multiple occasions and I’ve caught up to cyclists to point out the follow the pedestrian signal signage. Not sure where the disconnect is for drivers, as their signage is standard. For the cyclists, the follow the pedestrian signal signage is a bit unique, and those I’ve caught up to seemed to genuinely not know. I can’t imagine anybody on a bike willingly putting themselves in this position (http://youtu.be/KvYFhBR3fXs). With the red light turning traffic, that’s the exact position the drivers are putting us in.

Yes, this. Completely agree that cyclists are pretty dumb there, too, but have the (sort of) excuse that it’s an unusual traffic pattern. We still have to be better.

[UrbanEngineer]

@UrbanEngineer 62312 wrote:

…the follow the pedestrian signal signage…the follow the pedestrian signal signage…

Clearly what I said makes no sense, but I’m glad you understood.

[jrenaut]

@UrbanEngineer 62319 wrote:

Clearly what I said makes no sense, but I’m glad you understood.

If not for Charles Dickens, I might have been a dual math-English major (with a minor in Spanish). I understand everything.

Except left turns on red. I don’t understand those at all.

[dasgeh]

@UrbanEngineer 62312 wrote:

I see just as many cyclists blow through those lights (as in not shoulder check for turning traffic at all) when there is a green turn arrow as I do cars turning on red. It’s a bit of a problem. I’ve stopped next to motor vehicles and pointed out the red arrow on multiple occasions and I’ve caught up to cyclists to point out the follow the pedestrian signal signage. Not sure where the disconnect is for drivers, as their signage is standard. For the cyclists, the follow the pedestrian signal signage is a bit unique, and those I’ve caught up to seemed to genuinely not know. I can’t imagine anybody on a bike willingly putting themselves in this position (http://youtu.be/KvYFhBR3fXs). With the red light turning traffic, that’s the exact position the drivers are putting us in.

When cyclists blow the red, they put themselves in danger. When drivers blow the red, they put the lives of cyclists and peds in danger. Apples and oranges.

[mstone]

@dasgeh 62331 wrote:

When cyclists blow the red, they put themselves in danger. When drivers blow the red, they put the lives of cyclists and peds in danger. Apples and oranges.

Kinda like how comments to this story: http://www.streetsblog.org/2013/08/20/update-cabbie-rammed-cyclist-severed-womans-leg-wont-be-charged/ include a complaint about how cyclists run red lights. WHO GIVES A RIP? When we start seeing bikes being routinely used to kill or maim people THEN we can talk about how they’re unsafe. Until then, let’s focus on an actual problem.

[dasgeh]

I want a bumper sticker that says something like
“Cars can kill people. Please drive carefully.”

I google it. Found this. Originally, I read “they should be taken away too” and smiled.

Oh well.

[jrenaut]

Is it any wonder that you get these “but bikes break the law all the time” comments at sites like Arlnow and whatnot when even here, one of the most bike-friendly places on the internet, we’re making the same comments to ourselves?

We’ve had this discussion a million times, and I still disagree with the idea that we need to focus on cars because they do more damage. Telling someone “but the laws I break aren’t as bad as the ones you break” is not going to be constructive.

[bobco85]

@mstone 62333 wrote:

Kinda like how comments to this story: http://www.streetsblog.org/2013/08/20/update-cabbie-rammed-cyclist-severed-womans-leg-wont-be-charged/ include a complaint about how cyclists run red lights.

I’d say that rule applies to all articles even remotely mentioning cyclists

[dasgeh]

@jrenaut 62353 wrote:

Is it any wonder that you get these “but bikes break the law all the time” comments at sites like Arlnow and whatnot when even here, one of the most bike-friendly places on the internet, we’re making the same comments to ourselves?

We’ve had this discussion a million times, and I still disagree with the idea that we need to focus on cars because they do more damage. Telling someone “but the laws I break aren’t as bad as the ones you break” is not going to be constructive.

I say we should focus on protecting lives. We have limited law enforcement resources. We have to prioritize. I think the priority of law enforcement should be on stopping illegal behavior that kills and seriously injures.

In other words, if a cop happens to see a cyclist breaking a law and wants to give a ticket, fine. But if the department is going to send out a cop to a particular location to catch law-breakers, please do so at crosswalks and places with dangerous speeding and red light running (Constitution Avenue, anyone).

[jrenaut]

@dasgeh 62360 wrote:

I say we should focus on protecting lives. We have limited law enforcement resources. We have to prioritize. I think the priority of law enforcement should be on stopping illegal behavior that kills and seriously injures.

That’s fair – I don’t disagree with that.

[UrbanEngineer]

@dasgeh 62331 wrote:

When cyclists blow the red, they put themselves in danger. When drivers blow the red, they put the lives of cyclists and peds in danger. Apples and oranges.

The cyclists that I was referring to are doing this unknowingly. They are incorrectly following the traffic signals as opposed to the pedestrian signals.

@mstone 62333 wrote:

Kinda like how comments to this story: http://www.streetsblog.org/2013/08/20/update-cabbie-rammed-cyclist-severed-womans-leg-wont-be-charged/ include a complaint about how cyclists run red lights. WHO GIVES A RIP? When we start seeing bikes being routinely used to kill or maim people THEN we can talk about how they’re unsafe. Until then, let’s focus on an actual problem.

Wow…This is a stretch. Pointing out that the unique signage often times results in cyclists unknowingly blowing through a red is nothing like any of the comments you are referring to.

@jrenaut 62353 wrote:

Is it any wonder that you get these “but bikes break the law all the time” comments at sites like Arlnow and whatnot when even here, one of the most bike-friendly places on the internet, we’re making the same comments to ourselves?

My comment was in reference to cyclists who blow through those lights without checking for oncoming traffic whatsoever. I’ve caught up to a few of these cyclists and referred them to the signs that indicate cyclists are to follow the pedestrian signals and they were thankful that I pointed that out to them. They were following the traffic signals and had unknowingly put themselves in danger. They had no clue that they weren’t following the law.

So I don’t think anybody was actually complaining about cyclists purposely breaking the law on this thread. I think people are just talking about it as if it happened, but it hasn’t.

On a side note, there is a monumental difference between blowing through a red light without checking for oncoming traffic and jumping red lights safely. Anybody who condones blowing through reds without checking for traffic is a moron. A discussion about a scenario where this happens often on accident, is more a discussion on the infrastructure than the behavior of the cyclists.

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