June 2014 Trail Conditions

[Toonces]

@dgm 88635 wrote:

I’ve reported it to VDOT too. Hopefully it will get some attention. And yes, seeing more people crossing without looking and just riding into traffic – good luck with that!

Got a call from Mhan Vu at VDOT this morning about my report regarding the Gallows crossing. He advised the light is supposed to cycle in 180 seconds (3 min) after pushing the Walk button. I let him know that I and others have waited 5 + minutes over the past few weeks during our morning/evening commutes. He asked me to give him a call if this continues. PM me if you want his number as well. He advised that they cannot shorten the signal there because Gallows is a major artery. He also said that VDOT will be shortening the light cycle during mid-day and weekends starting in July.

[mstone]

@dgm 88750 wrote:

Got a call from Mhan Vu at VDOT this morning about my report regarding the Gallows crossing. He advised the light is supposed to cycle in 180 seconds (3 min) after pushing the Walk button. I let him know that I and others have waited 5 + minutes over the past few weeks during our morning/evening commutes. He asked me to give him a call if this continues. PM me if you want his number as well. He advised that they cannot shorten the signal there because Gallows is a major artery. He also said that VDOT will be shortening the light cycle during mid-day and weekends starting in July.

Screw VDOT, I’ll just go through. Hint: W&OD is also a major artery.

[Toonces]

@mstone 88752 wrote:

Screw VDOT, I’ll just go through. Hint: W&OD is also a major artery.

Yes, but cars win around here. For now.

[dasgeh]

@dgm 88750 wrote:

Got a call from Mhan Vu at VDOT this morning about my report regarding the Gallows crossing. He advised the light is supposed to cycle in 180 seconds (3 min) after pushing the Walk button. I let him know that I and others have waited 5 + minutes over the past few weeks during our morning/evening commutes. He asked me to give him a call if this continues. PM me if you want his number as well. He advised that they cannot shorten the signal there because Gallows is a major artery. He also said that VDOT will be shortening the light cycle during mid-day and weekends starting in July.

The Virginia legislature passed a law saying a bike can legally go through a red if it’s been waiting 2 minutes. Someone should point out to vdot that purposefully designing a light cycle to trigger the legal – go – on – red is a bad idea in many levels. we should also point out that legislative intent seems to be saying more than 120 seconds is too long.

It would also be helpful to get vdot to measure throughput in people, not cars. but that’s a bigger issue.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[Phatboing]

@dasgeh 88758 wrote:

The Virginia legislature passed a law saying a bike can legally go through a red if it’s been waiting 2 minutes. Someone should point out to vdot that purposefully designing a light cycle to trigger the legal – go – on – red is a bad idea in many levels. we should also point out that legislative intent seems to be saying more than 120 seconds is too long.

It would also be helpful to get vdot to measure throughput in people, not cars. but that’s a bigger issue.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Text.

For some reason, I always thought it was two cycles or two minutes, whichever is longer. What a chump.

I’m also not sure if this applies to pedestrian lights, which is what they’d consider the W&OD to be.

[dasgeh]

@Phatboing 88760 wrote:

Text.

For some reason, I always thought it was two cycles or two minutes, whichever is longer. What a chump.

I’m also not sure if this applies to pedestrian lights, which is what they’d consider the W&OD to be.

The way I read it is that it applies if any part of the intersection is controlled by a traffic control light. If they had meant the bike traffic had to be controlled by a light, they could have written it that way.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

[Phatboing]

@dasgeh 88761 wrote:

The way I read it is that it applies if any part of the intersection is controlled by a traffic control light. If they had meant the bike traffic had to be controlled by a light, they could have written it that way.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk

Why not. If it means waiting less at the dumb light, I’ll accept any interpretation.

[mstone]

@Phatboing 88760 wrote:

I’m also not sure if this applies to pedestrian lights, which is what they’d consider the W&OD to be.

No, the 2 minute language does not apply to pedestrian signals, and yes the W&OD crossing is a pedestrian signal. Pedestrian signals are in a different section of the code.

[bobco85]

A legal way to bypass this light would be a modified version of a jug handle turn that I usually do when turning onto Gallows to head south toward Mosaic:

For eastbound W&OD users: turn right onto Gallows, make a left turn onto Iliff, turn left onto sidewalk, turn right back onto W&OD

For westbound W&OD users: turn left onto Gallows sidewalk, turn right onto Gallows (technically from Iliff), turn left onto W&OD

As long as there is a gap in traffic, this would solve the problem of waiting 3+ minutes after pushing the beg button. That said, it makes NO SENSE why they can’t synchronize this light with the other ones on Gallows at the very least during rush hour!

[mstone]

@bobco85 88789 wrote:

As long as there is a gap in traffic, this would solve the problem of waiting 3+ minutes after pushing the beg button. That said, it makes NO SENSE why they can’t synchronize this light with the other ones on Gallows at the very least during rush hour!

Because, they don’t give a crap.

[americancyclo]

@bobco85 88789 wrote:

A legal way to bypass this light would be a modified version of a jug handle turn that I usually do when turning onto Gallows to head south toward Mosaic:

For eastbound W&OD users: turn right onto Gallows, make a left turn onto Iliff, turn left onto sidewalk, turn right back onto W&OD

you can also just follow Iliff through to Sandburg back to the trail if you don’t want to ride the sidewalk.

[n18]

The buttons for the traffic light at W&OD and Gallows were broken for weeks; I think, it used to be “fast”. I think the heavy rain finally did them in. It may be just one button on one side. Pressing the button several times might help. We have a malfunctioning button near where I live, it’s the same big button type. After the heavy rain that was about 2 to 3 weeks ago, it stopped working. Three days after the rain I went to record the number on the pole to report it to VDOT, and tested the button and it worked. I know it was not replaced, so some water may have gotten into it, which took days to dry. That button needs to be replaced.

[hozn]

@bobco85 88789 wrote:

As long as there is a gap in traffic, this would solve the problem of waiting 3+ minutes after pushing the beg button. That said, it makes NO SENSE why they can’t synchronize this light with the other ones on Gallows at the very least during rush hour!

This light *is* synchronized with the light at the intersection just north *when* someone pushes the button. It changes approximately 10 seconds after the one up the road.

I agree that there was a time when the button was broken, but only a day or two. It has been working normally since then as far as I can tell (I cross westbound before 7am and eastbound a bit before 5pm).

[kcb203]

@mstone 88766 wrote:

No, the 2 minute language does not apply to pedestrian signals, and yes the W&OD crossing is a pedestrian signal. Pedestrian signals are in a different section of the code.

I read it as applying to this crossing. The crossing is an “intersection,” and it is controlled by a “traffic light” that is “steady red”:

46.2-833(: “Notwithstanding any other provision of law, if a driver of a motorcycle or moped or a bicycle rider approaches an intersection that is controlled by a traffic light, the driver or rider may proceed through the intersection on a steady red light only if the driver or rider (i) comes to a full and complete stop at the intersection for two complete cycles of the traffic light or for two minutes, whichever is shorter, (ii) exercises due care as provided by law, (iii) otherwise treats the traffic control device as a stop sign, (iv) determines that it is safe to proceed, and (v) yields the right of way to the driver of any vehicle approaching on such other highway from either direction.”

46.2-100: “Intersection means . . .for purposes only of authorizing installation of traffic-control devices, every crossing of a highway or street at grade by a pedestrian crosswalk.”

46.2-833(A): “Steady red indicates that moving traffic shall stop and remain stopped as long as the red signal is shown, except in the direction indicated by a steady green arrow.”

[mstone]

@kcb203 88821 wrote:

I read it as applying to this crossing. The crossing is an “intersection,” and it is controlled by a “traffic light” that is “steady red”:[/quote]

No, it isn’t controlled by a “traffic light” (46.2-833), it is controlled by:

Quote:

§ 46.2-925. Pedestrian control signals.

Whenever pedestrian control signals exhibiting the words, numbers, or symbols meaning “Walk” or “Don’t Walk” are in place such signals shall indicate and apply to pedestrians as follows:

Walk. – Pedestrians facing such signal may proceed across the highway in the direction of the signal and shall be given the right-of-way by the drivers of all vehicles.

Don’t Walk. – No pedestrian shall start to cross the highway in the direction of such signal, but any pedestrian who has partially completed his crossing on the Walk signal shall proceed to a sidewalk or safety island and remain there while the Don’t Walk signal is showing.

There’s nothing in that section governing “pedestrian control signals” that says anything about a 2 minute rule. In this case, the cyclist is acting as a pedestrian, not as traffic (because the W&OD is a trail, not a street). A bike on gallows facing the traffic light rather than the pedestrian control signal would be able to claim the 2 minute rule (not that cars would ever be asked to wait that long there, so the light simply isn’t that long on the road side). Note that 46.2-833( refers to a “red light” (the language used for traffic signals), not a “don’t walk” (the language used for pedestrian control signals) because it is not intended to apply to the latter.

I’m honestly not entirely sure why it matters because the reality is that if you’re already sure you’re going to get screwed at the light, why bother standing there for two minutes just so you can feel smug about going a minute early? The reality is that at this point we should just go when it’s safe to do so (during the long period when the road is completely empty) and not worry about it unless some asshat starts doing enforcement there (at which point we just need to argue more forcefully for a sane light cycle rather than engaging in this sophistry over whether we can legally go one minute early–which will generally be after the safe empty period is over and about the time the cars start coming just in time to get the red).

[Author]

Posts