Jogging on the cycletrack

[PotomacCyclist]

+1 on the response to the hostile overgeneralization post above. We do need at least a subforum on running in the DC metro area, something I’ve suggested in the past. This can help get more non-cyclists engaged in trail and road safety issues and infrastructure policies. It can also help with getting other perspectives and addressing issues with others who may not bike much, but also use area roads and trails.

It is ridiculous to be demonizing all runners. That’s what a lot of drivers do to cyclists. I bike, run and walk on local trails, sidewalks and roads. I notice how much my perspective changes, based on the transportation/exercise mode I’m taking that day. The worst situations I find myself in are when I’m walking through crosswalks, with the WALK signal and after looking for traffic in all directions. Even with those precautions, I still have numerous near-misses because of speeding drivers, who either blow through red lights or take turns at high speeds through those crosswalks.

As a cyclist, I get annoyed by runners wearing earphones who sometimes veer suddenly, even though I call out passes. I also get annoyed by high-speed cyclists on trails who cross the center line to pass and force oncoming bike traffic off to the side. As a runner, I face the same thing, cyclists crossing the center line to pass and nearly hitting me or others on the trails, whether it’s cyclists, runners or walkers.

It’s tempting to generalize and think about scofflaw drivers, or runners, or cyclists or pedestrians (who often walk in front of traffic while looking at their smartphones). I even do so momentarily, even though the next day or later that same day, I might fit into one of the other categories (runner, cyclist or walker).

Demonizing and emotional rants don’t really help. They don’t convince many people, and they tend to inflame situations.

[PotomacCyclist]

@Subby 95042 wrote:

Not all bike lanes are created equally. I could care less if someone is running in the bike lane on Westmoreland St. or Little Falls or whatever West McLean/N. Arlington neighborhood with which you can come up. It gets a little dicier in protected bike lanes during rush hour (15th street for example).

Yeah, I don’t think this is accurate. I think most runners who run in a bike lane don’t even think about it the same way you and I would, unless they are also cyclist commuters.

Another reason why some sort of regional running forum or sub-forum would be useful. The conversation would also benefit cyclists because right now, there is no good place to discuss these issues with runners on a regional basis.

[mstone]

@PotomacCyclist 95045 wrote:

I also get annoyed by high-speed cyclists on trails who cross the center line to pass and force oncoming bike traffic off to the side. As a runner, I face the same thing, cyclists crossing the center line to pass and nearly hitting me or others on the trails, whether it’s cyclists, runners or walkers.

They should be crossing the center line to pass, they just shouldn’t be doing it when there is oncoming traffic.

[baiskeli]

@creadinger 95038 wrote:

Hmm.

[bobco85]

Okay, I’m going to throw this out and see if it catches. Perhaps this should go onto another thread, but I want some sort of resolution that we can reference.

Hypothetical yet probably very real situation:

Joseph G. Gerr is a runner who is new to the DC area. Joe has seen runners in the bike lanes and has learned the laws regarding running in the streets, but is curious as to the best way to run in the bike lane. He asks you, Psy Klist, for advice. We will assume that he will run in the bike lane anyways. What advice do you give him so that his running in the bike lane is as safe as possible? (what to expect from drivers/cyclists/pedestrians, uphill/downhill, with/against traffic, move left/right to pass, signaling, time of day, lights, reflective stuff, being a PAL, etc.)

I’ll hold off before giving my opinion, but hopefully we can get something going here.

[Geoff]

@bobco85 95057 wrote:

Okay, I’m going to throw this out and see if it catches. Perhaps this should go onto another thread, but I want some sort of resolution that we can reference.

Hypothetical yet probably very real situation:

Joseph G. Gerr is a runner who is new to the DC area. Joe has seen runners in the bike lanes and has learned the laws regarding running in the streets, but is curious as to the best way to run in the bike lane. He asks you, Psy Klist, for advice. We will assume that he will run in the bike lane anyways. What advice do you give him so that his running in the bike lane is as safe as possible? (what to expect from drivers/cyclists/pedestrians, uphill/downhill, with/against traffic, move left/right to pass, signaling, time of day, lights, reflective stuff, being a PAL, etc.)

I’ll hold off before giving my opinion, but hopefully we can get something going here.

1. Be predictable.
2. Be situationally aware. Ditch distractions like earphones. Think about the kinds of situations you might encounter and how you should react, to protect yourself and others. Think about situations caused by the mistakes of others AND mistakes caused by yourself. Be aware of bikes / cars / other runners around you.
3. If you are in a one-way bike lane, treat it like a lane. Stay to your left. Bikes should pass you the same way cars pass you – on their own left. Be prepared to get off the road altogether if necessary for safety.
4. If you are in a 2-direction trail (cycle track, MUP) where cars are not allowed, stay to your right. Bikes and pedestrians should all stay to their right and pass on the left. Staying to your left violates #1 above because now some pedestrians are on the right, others are on the left.

[americancyclo]

@Geoff 95061 wrote:

1. Be predictable.
2. Be situationally aware. Ditch distractions like earphones. Think about the kinds of situations you might encounter and how you should react, to protect yourself and others. Think about situations caused by the mistakes of others AND mistakes caused by yourself. Be aware of bikes / cars / other runners around you.
3. If you are in a one-way bike lane, treat it like a lane. Stay to your left. Bikes should pass you the same way cars pass you – on their own left. Be prepared to get off the road altogether if necessary for safety.
4. If you are in a 2-direction trail (cycle track, MUP) where cars are not allowed, stay to your right. Bikes and pedestrians should all stay to their right and pass on the left. Staying to your left violates #1 above because now some pedestrians are on the right, others are on the left.

Does 3 say “run against traffic”, while 4 say “run with traffic”?

I’d rather the runner pretends they are a slow bicycle, stays right always, and moves even farther right (on to the sidewalk, or in the road) and then stops to look both ways before turning.

[Geoff]

@americancyclo 95063 wrote:

Does 3 say “run against traffic”, while 4 say “run with traffic”?

I’d rather the runner pretends they are a slow bicycle, stays right always, and moves even farther right (on to the sidewalk, or in the road) and then stops to look both ways before turning.

Yep, 3 and 4 say different things. I see the situations as being fundamentally different. Any time the pedestrian is on a road (and a bike lane is part of “the road”) the pedestrian will want to stay left.

No argument about looking both ways when turning. Hate Crazy Ivans!

[americancyclo]

@Geoff 95068 wrote:

Yep, 3 and 4 say different things. I see the situations as being fundamentally different. Any time the pedestrian is on a road (and a bike lane is part of “the road”) the pedestrian will want to stay left.

No argument about looking both ways when turning. Hate Crazy Ivans!

I think we are making the assumption that the jogger is running against traffic in a one-way bike lane scenario, correct? That might need to be spelled out.

[bobco85]

So far, with a little clarification, everything previous sounds good. Here’s what I’ll add:

5. If you’re going to jog at night in the street, you need to have reflective clothing (like a vest) and bright lights on your front (torso/head) and back. Headlights and backpack lights are good options.
6. If going uphill in a bike lane against traffic, you need to be ready to move to the curb side (your left, cyclist’s right) because descending cyclists might not see you in time to stop.
7. If going downhill in a bike lane against traffic, you need to be ready to move to the curb side (your left, cyclist’s right) because climbing cyclists need extra space especially if they get tired.
8. If running against traffic in the bike lane, be extremely careful when approaching intersections as you are not in a place where drivers/cyclists/pedestrians are expecting you to be.
9. If you have to stop to tie your shoe(s) or take a break, get onto the curb. I don’t care how bright and colorful your clothes might be; crouching down in the street will make you invisible to everyone.
10. If you encounter a crowded or dicey situation, slow down or stop. You’ll be able to get your heart rate back up if you can stay out of the hospital/morgue.
11. Not everyone is going to be happy to see you in the bike lane or cycle track, so try and be cordial even if harsh words are thrown at you.

[PotomacCyclist]

@mstone 95048 wrote:

They should be crossing the center line to pass, they just shouldn’t be doing it when there is oncoming traffic.

I know that they should cross the center line to pass. I specifically mentioned situations where they cross the center line when there is traffic on both sides of the line, and they try to squeeze in between the two streams of traffic or force cyclists on the other side of the center line to veer away, all while traveling much faster than other people on the trail.

Or in one case, a person crossed the center line to pass someone, but they did so, just as they were heading into the blind turn, just to the south of Gravelly Point. There was no way that guy would have been able to see a cyclist or runner or pedestrian if they had been heading toward him. He would have crashed into a cyclist or runner, and knocked over a pedestrian. This was during an early evening over the summer, when the trail was still fairly busy. There was an oncoming cyclist but about 50 yds away. It was only luck that the other cyclist wasn’t closer to the blind turn. Unfortunately, the aggressive passing maneuver was not a rare occurrence. (I’ve brought up this topic several times on the forum over the years. Some people actually respond by defending the behavior, that if they want to pass, they can do so, no matter how much traffic there is on both sides of the center line at that moment.)

[PotomacCyclist]

@bobco85 95091 wrote:

So far, with a little clarification, everything previous sounds good. Here’s what I’ll add:

5. If you’re going to jog at night in the street, you need to have reflective clothing (like a vest) and bright lights on your front (torso/head) and back. Headlights and backpack lights are good options.
6. If going uphill in a bike lane against traffic, you need to be ready to move to the curb side (your left, cyclist’s right) because descending cyclists might not see you in time to stop.
7. If going downhill in a bike lane against traffic, you need to be ready to move to the curb side (your left, cyclist’s right) because climbing cyclists need extra space especially if they get tired.
8. If running against traffic in the bike lane, be extremely careful when approaching intersections as you are not in a place where drivers/cyclists/pedestrians are expecting you to be.
9. If you have to stop to tie your shoe(s) or take a break, get onto the curb. I don’t care how bright and colorful your clothes might be; crouching down in the street will make you invisible to everyone.
10. If you encounter a crowded or dicey situation, slow down or stop. You’ll be able to get your heart rate back up if you can stay out of the hospital/morgue.
11. Not everyone is going to be happy to see you in the bike lane or cycle track, so try and be cordial even if harsh words are thrown at you.

Is someone going to bring this list to WABA? That might be one way to help get a dialogue going. Some of us here are both cyclists and runners, but I doubt that any running specialists are going to be reading this forum.

[jnva]

As a runner myself, I can’t imagine going out running “just” in the cycle track or anywhere I have to stop just about every block. That’s not running… I have seen people running along 15th street and I can imagine they are on there way to the mall, and just like I do on my bike, I hop sidewalks and try to take shortcuts (wherever it’s safe) to get where I’m going. If people really are just running in the cycle track well that’s just stupid.

[baiskeli]

@PotomacCyclist 95095 wrote:

Is someone going to bring this list to WABA? That might be one way to help get a dialogue going. Some of us here are both cyclists and runners, but I doubt that any running specialists are going to be reading this forum.

I doubt WABA would want to encourage a public conversation about how best to do something illegal, especially when it involves pedestrians using the roadway, which is generally viewed as unsafe. And the next step would be to discuss how everyday pedestrians, e.g. walkers, can walk in the bike lanes, or even in the roadway. Is that the next conversation? After all, if runners can do it, why can’t walkers?

[americancyclo]

@PotomacCyclist 95095 wrote:

Is someone going to bring this list to WABA? That might be one way to help get a dialogue going. Some of us here are both cyclists and runners, but I doubt that any running specialists are going to be reading this forum.

We could have a list of 11 different situational items to remember, or just one: don’t run in the bike lanes.

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