Jogging on the cycletrack

[dasgeh]

@Geoff 94605 wrote:

Other goofy things pedestrians do

EVERY DAY on Pennsylvania Avenue, the tourists who don’t understand that it’s a bad idea to stand in lanes marked with big bike symbols when bikes are riding at you at speed.

[nsfnsfdave]

@baiskeli 94602 wrote:

It is not true to say that it is legal to run in the street under any circumstances though. The law clearly intends that people not walk/run in the street unless they have no choice, e.g. there’s no sidewalk or the sidewalk isn’t usable. A slight risk of falling while running (which exists while running in the street too) isn’t intended as a reason.

And when your wife runs in the bike lane against traffic, she creates a whole new hazard by making it unclear which side bikes should pass her on, as described earlier.

At the place my wife was “blessed out” by the cyclist, she was running in a very residential area. If you know this neighborhood, it has some sidewalks, some homes without sidewalks, and she tells me that at the home of the cyclist who blessed her out their trash and recycling dumpsters are often on the sidewalk.

She runs with sharing the road in mind, doesn’t wear a headset (one of my pet peeves) and always gives way to cyclists.

Again, my points are – it is legal to run in the street – I think we all agree runners SHOULDN’T be in the cycle tracks – but let’s face it, it’s a fact of life and yelling at a runner about the legality of running there will never solve the problem.

And most importantly, I love living in a country where we have cycle tracks to argue about.

[Greenbelt]

The larger issue here is that too much road space and priority is given to people who want to strap 4000lbs of metal and glass on their back and burn a bunch of fumes in order to move around.

Since the external costs and dangers are so much lower for people who move around on bikes or skateboards or on their feet, we should allocate more road space for those modes.

Mode conflicts between pedestrians, joggers, bikes mostly boil down to inadequate space to share, since most of the space is currently being prioritized for personal car transport, for reasons that really don’t make sense to me as a public policy other than the will of the majority I suppose.

[dplasters]

@nsfnsfdave 94621 wrote:

it is legal to run in the street

In some circumstances.

VA Code 46.2-928 is the one most often stated:

Pedestrians shall not use the roadways for travel, except when necessary to do so because of the absence of sidewalks which are reasonably suitable and passable for their use. If they walk on the hard surface, or the main travelled portion of the roadway, they shall keep to the extreme left side or edge thereof, or where the shoulders of the highway are of sufficient width to permit, they may walk on either shoulder thereof.

Unless there is now a shoulder in the neighborhood (can that exist? You can’t park on a shoulder, right?). People break laws all the time. I Idaho stop the hell out of stop signs during my morning commute. Running with traffic in the street while not on the shoulder is illegal. Given the situation described, it seems like she was breaking the law. She can join the club of scofflaw cyclists.

[mstone]

@nsfnsfdave 94621 wrote:

Again, my points are – it is legal to run in the street – I think we all agree runners SHOULDN’T be in the cycle tracks – but let’s face it, it’s a fact of life and yelling at a runner about the legality of running there will never solve the problem.

You keep saying this, over and over again, ignoring the citation to the Virginia code which was posted more than once.

[baiskeli]

@nsfnsfdave 94621 wrote:

At the place my wife was “blessed out” by the cyclist, she was running in a very residential area. If you know this neighborhood, it has some sidewalks, some homes without sidewalks, and she tells me that at the home of the cyclist who blessed her out their trash and recycling dumpsters are often on the sidewalk.

She runs with sharing the road in mind, doesn’t wear a headset (one of my pet peeves) and always gives way to cyclists.

Okay. The bottom line is that there is plenty of wiggle room depending on the circumstances. On a low traffic street I would have probably just ridden past your wife and not cared that she was there.

Again, my points are – it is legal to run in the street – I think we all agree runners SHOULDN’T be in the cycle tracks – but let’s face it, it’s a fact of life and yelling at a runner about the legality of running there will never solve the problem.

It’s NOT legal to run in the street (or bike lane or cycle track), except when there’s no alternative, such as no sidewalks. You need to accept that part of this discussion.

[DismalScientist]

@baiskeli 94640 wrote:

It’s NOT legal to run in the street (or bike lane or cycle track), except when there’s no alternative, such as no reasonably safe sidewalks. You need to accept that part of this discussion.

ftfy

We are Borg. You must accept all points of this discussion. Resistance is futile.

[Dickie]

Since I was the lightening rod in this second iteration on this thread I will put in my last few cents and leave this in the unresolved column. First off, I am thankful for all of you that added to the dialogue. Although these sorts of topics can get heated it is the respect we all show each other that keeps me coming back to this forum. No matter where we stand on the topic I know in reality we all have each other’s back and that makes me feel happier and safer on the bike. To nsfnsfdave, welcome to the forum and thank you for sticking around a heated debate when many newcomers would have bailed. I appreciate your willingness to stick your neck out and speak your mind. I may not agree with all your points but I certainly am glad you continued to participate. I think we can all agree that there are specific laws that address this issue with just enough gray area to debate. I think the reference to the Idaho stop is an interesting one. I often employ this method at a stop sign (hangs head in shame), but I do so completely understanding and accepting not only the risks to myself, but also how it effects those around me. When people employ the same logic while running in a bike lane, (understanding how their decisions affect mine and acting accordingly) then I have little issue with the law being broken. My initial rant was inspired by a runner doing all the wrong things at the wrong time with no regard for his fellow citizens. To quote Dirt “you all rock and we should go for a bike ride”.

[dbb]

@DismalScientist 94642 wrote:

I have no dog in this fight.

I would suggest this is the first time an economist has ever taken that position!

[rcannon100]

@DismalScientist 94642 wrote:

I have no dog in this fight.

I have not fight in my dogs.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6628[/ATTACH]

[PotomacCyclist]

@Dickie 94659 wrote:

To quote Dirt “you all rock and we should go for a bike ride”.

Everyone except for me. My quads won’t let me ride right now. Very cruel they are.

[fongfong]

I just got through this thread, and wow. What seems most interesting to me is that virtually every runner who decides to run in a bike lane knows very well they are creating risks for cyclists. And they just don’t care. And they are fully prepared to get into an argument with you since they likely get admonished every time they do it. And they know the law is not on their side. And they have more than plenty of other routes they can take since they are not actually running anywhere for transportation – I’ve never seen those running with backpacks in the bike lane.

So when I read the staunch defense of bike lane running and that sidewalks stink, the fact remains that there are other places to run. Bike lane runners are the fitness equivalents of Range Rover drivers, with an inflated sense of their own importance. Perhaps I am not as zen as many on this list. Sorry, but when a ped, or cyclist, or driver, I find it helpful and considerate to others to follow the rules. I await a post from a runner that makes the case that they actually do give a darn about others.

[creadinger]

Just when you thought it was safe to get back in the water….or back on the forum.

But since you asked….

Yeah, this thread (Why I care, I have no idea. Maybe it’s the false accusations or the hyperbole of life and death arguments that some of you are making) has got me seriously reconsidering the ‘brotherhood’ of cyclists we have here in DC. A couple people here know less about sharing than 2 year olds.

fongfong – I don’t have to prove sh*t to you. On the rare occasion that I actually am out running and you see me in the bike lane, if you have such a big problem with it, step up. Don’t just rant here about it. Get some actual opinions maybe. I bet you’ll find a ton of reasons why people run in bike lanes, aside from your made up BS opinions. Maybe, this 50 yards of bike lane is the most direct way to connect quiet back streets, where you think runners ought to be… since they’re just recreational and all. Maybe it’s purely convenience on an open stretch of road. Or maybe, they’re too scared to run on the trails because they’ve had too many close calls with cyclist a-holes passing them dangerously. I see dangerous passes on the trails on a DAILY basis, but I have never had a bad encounter with a runner in a bike lane, whether I be in a car, on a bike, or the one running. THERE ARE OTHER REASONS PEOPLE DO THINGS THAN TO SIMPLY PISS YOU OFF. Halleljuah!

If there was a forum like this for DMV runners, I wonder what the missed connections thread would be like?? I thought the ultimate battle was against car culture and car only infrastructure. Battling the odd jogger here and there seems like a complete waste of time to me.

Yes, I do believe it’s time for me to log off and go for a ride. I have way better things I can do with my time.

[lordofthemark]

So yesterday I rode to Old Town. Rode down Union Street all the way to Jones Point Park and back. It seemed like there were quite a few runners in the bike lane on Union Street. I can only asume they ran on the cycle track because of walkers on trail near the waterfront, and the generally bad sidewalk conditions. I do not recall if they all jumped out of the way, but I think they did not all do so. I was confused about how to pass, but I am glad for this thread because now I know to pass on my left. It would be easier to do that if there were less auto traffic on Union, and if I were faster.

I am glad I went for the ride – it was a beautiful day.

[Subby]

Not all bike lanes are created equally. I could care less if someone is running in the bike lane on Westmoreland St. or Little Falls or whatever West McLean/N. Arlington neighborhood with which you can come up. It gets a little dicier in protected bike lanes during rush hour (15th street for example).

What seems most interesting to me is that virtually every runner who decides to run in a bike lane knows very well they are creating risks for cyclists.

Yeah, I don’t think this is accurate. I think most runners who run in a bike lane don’t even think about it the same way you and I would, unless they are also cyclist commuters.

[Author]

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