Jogging on the cycletrack

[dasgeh]

@Dickie 94428 wrote:

Last night I was riding home in the bike lane coming down the hill near Sushi Rock on Clarendon Blvd. […]

Have you reported this to Arlington County Police? Non emergency number is 703-558-2222. They claim to be data driven, so knowing that there’s a particularly dangerous situation (both with that infrastructure and with joggers) should help.

[PotomacCyclist]

It is useful to see different perspectives. I have different feelings about traffic, depending on whether I’m biking, running or walking, although aggressive/clueless people can be aggravating from any perspective (risky passers, people with earphones who veer into other lanes on trails).

Note that I actually am an occasional transportational runner. Sometimes I run home from work, although it becomes a combined transportation/fitness run most of the time.

I usually run during offpeak hours, when the roads are nearly empty, so I can run on sidewalks, bike lanes and even car lanes with no problems.

As for the main issues of the thread, this is why I think it would be useful to have a DC/Arlington running forum, similar to this forum. There are many local groups and national forums but nothing on a DC regional level. Maybe because running is not quite as popular for transportation as cycling is, although I know of other people who sometimes run home from work. Issues like running in bike lanes could be discussed among runners, instead of in piecemeal fashion. A regional forum could also help to increase support for bike/pedestrian trails because many runners use those trails too.

[Brendan von Buckingham]

Ixne on the opsce. They’ll just set up a speed trap to catch DismalScientist.

[Subby]

I would deem all sidewalks unsafe for running. Catch a toe on one of those seams while moving at a decent pace and you are going down.

edit: Brought to you by the poster that thinks all policy should be set according to his numerous, clumsy personal experiences.

[dplasters]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6626[/ATTACH]

[Dickie]

@dasgeh 94539 wrote:

Have you reported this to Arlington County Police? Non emergency number is 703-558-2222. They claim to be data driven, so knowing that there’s a particularly dangerous situation (both with that infrastructure and with joggers) should help.

I never thought to, but thanks for suggesting it, I will call in the morning.

[nsfnsfdave]

@rcannon100 94529 wrote:

Translation: My convenience is more important than your safety.

.

Not Quite. My point is my wife’s safety (and that of other runners) is more important than your desire to have exclusive use of a piece of County property that her tax dollars helped to create.

If we’re talking safety, it should be about everyone’s safety, not just yours. She has the scars to prove that running on the sidewalks is dangerous. Let’s share nicely.

[mstone]

What’s wrong with all the side streets that don’t have bike lanes?

[Brendan von Buckingham]

@nsfnsfdave 94565 wrote:

Not Quite. My point is my wife’s safety (and that of other runners) is more important than your desire to have exclusive use of a piece of County property that her tax dollars helped to create.

If we’re talking safety, it should be about everyone’s safety, not just yours. She has the scars to prove that running on the sidewalks is dangerous. Let’s share nicely.

That exclusive use is a life-safety issue though. It’s not a quibble or convenience. Cyclists pay for interstates, but we don’t bike I-66.

Our point is the proportionality of safety concerns. The original start to this conversation was about a jogger in a bike lane causing a life threatening situation to himself, a cyclist, and an innocent bystander pedestrian. The jogger was ignorant of the danger he created. How do we get joggers to understand the serious danger they can pose when they run in the street incorrectly?

Sounds like your wife has scraped her knees a couple of times on the sidewalk. Correct me if I’m wrong because that might level our different concerns. Because meanwhile, I’ve been hit by a car 3 times. I bet most of the other cyclists here have been hit too, or have had life-flash-before-their-eyes close calls. Forgive us if we don’t consider scraped knees quite the same as what we have to deal with.

You can see that difference, can’t you? Cyclists deal with a lot of risks. Runners should deal with their own risks too and not just transfer the risk to us.

[Sunyata]

@nsfnsfdave 94565 wrote:

Not Quite. My point is my wife’s safety… She has the scars to prove that running on the sidewalks is dangerous. Let’s share nicely.

Okay, my judgement might be a bit biased since in addition to being a bike commuter, I am also a mountain biker and trail runner. BUT… If your wife (or any runner, for that matter) is unable to run on a sidewalk (even if it is less than pristine) without hurting herself, then perhaps she should not be running? When I run, I have a tendency to pay attention to what I am doing and where my feet are falling on the surface of whatever it is that I am running on. I have run on terrible sidewalks, horrible pavement, and rooty and rocky trails. I have NEVER fallen when paying attention to what I was doing. And I am the biggest klutz out there.

That being said, I do however often run on the street versus the sidewalk. I do it safely (facing traffic and never in a bike lane – that is just rude to my fellow cyclists, IMO) and mostly because pavement is much easier on my knees than concrete sidewalks.

In short, I do believe that running in the roadway (on low traveled roads) can be done safely, but that runners should stay off the infrastructure made specifically for cyclists. I also feel that runners should pay attention to what they are doing and take responsibility for their own safety. So yes, we should all try to get along. But in order to do so, we must follow the laws and rules put in place to keep us safe and take responsibility for our selves.

[baiskeli]

@Steve 94510 wrote:

Oddly enough, as a cyclists, I hate when runners go contra-flow. I MUCH prefer them to go in the same direction as cars/bikes. It makes passing a much more predictable affair. If someone is running at me, especially in the bike lane, I never know which way we are supposed to pass.

I agree.

[baiskeli]

@nsfnsfdave 94565 wrote:

Not Quite. My point is my wife’s safety (and that of other runners) is more important than your desire to have exclusive use of a piece of County property that her tax dollars helped to create.

If we’re talking safety, it should be about everyone’s safety, not just yours. She has the scars to prove that running on the sidewalks is dangerous. Let’s share nicely.

We haven’t established that it’s safer for your wife to run in the street rather than the sidewalk though.

[nsfnsfdave]

@Sunyata 94573 wrote:

.

In short, I do believe that running in the roadway (on low traveled roads) can be done safely, but that runners should stay off the infrastructure made specifically for cyclists. I also feel that runners should pay attention to what they are doing and take responsibility for their own safety. So yes, we should all try to get along. But in order to do so, we must follow the laws and rules put in place to keep us safe and take responsibility for our selves.

I couldn’t agree more. My wife runs on those sidewalks that are adequate, and the streets when they’re not. I asked her yesterday evening if she ever runs in the cycle tracks. She said sometimes it’s the best option, but she always runs facing the oncoming cyclists and is careful to get off when one approaches. My objection was to the statement “it’s illegal to run in the street” This is simply untrue.

[baiskeli]

@nsfnsfdave 94595 wrote:

I couldn’t agree more. My wife runs on those sidewalks that are adequate, and the streets when they’re not. I asked her yesterday evening if she ever runs in the cycle tracks. She said sometimes it’s the best option, but she always runs facing the oncoming cyclists and is careful to get off when one approaches. My objection was to the statement “it’s illegal to run in the street” This is simply untrue.

It is not true to say that it is legal to run in the street under any circumstances though. The law clearly intends that people not walk/run in the street unless they have no choice, e.g. there’s no sidewalk or the sidewalk isn’t usable. A slight risk of falling while running (which exists while running in the street too) isn’t intended as a reason.

And when your wife runs in the bike lane against traffic, she creates a whole new hazard by making it unclear which side bikes should pass her on, as described earlier.

[Geoff]

1) The fellow who was standing in the 15th St. cycle track waiting for a chance to jaywalk. As I approached, I called out “Bad place to stand!” He stepped back a pace and continued to wait. Similar things have happened before.

2) The two women who stepped into the G St. bike lane, again to jaywalk. Seeing me approach, they both stepped back; one held up her hand and said “Sorry!” As I went by she muttered “Jerk!” Then I “got” it; the hand was a signal for me to stop, so they could proceed with jaywalking.

3) The fellow doing calisthenics on the Custis.

[Author]

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