Jogger-Cyclist collision and lawsuit

[hozn]

I like the manual mode in the mazdas; it is far more responsive than many/most steptronics. In general, I really like how the Mazda 5 drives. And the huge hauling capacity; my wife uses it constantly for hauling shrubs etc. for work. Glad we got the leather.

[jrenaut]

To bring this back to bikes (though when I drive, I drive a 2006 Mazda 3 with a manual transmission), I find that driving a manual is much more like riding a fixed gear. Shifting a car is a lot more like not shifting a bike.

[dkel]

@jrenaut 123966 wrote:

To bring this back to bikes (though when I drive, I drive a 2006 Mazda 3 with a manual transmission), I find that driving a manual is much more like riding a fixed gear. Shifting a car is a lot more like not shifting a bike.

This! (You beat me to it.) (Subaru Outback, manual transmission, btw.)

[hozn]

@jrenaut 123966 wrote:

To bring this back to bikes (though when I drive, I drive a 2006 Mazda 3 with a manual transmission), I find that driving a manual is much more like riding a fixed gear. Shifting a car is a lot more like not shifting a bike.

This doesn’t make any sense to me!

I haven’t ridden a one of y’all’s fixed *gear* bicycles, but will definitely tell you that [for me, obviously] riding the ultimate fixie, a unicycle, is not at all like driving a manual. And riding a single-speed is a lot less like driving a manual than riding a geared bike.

My reasoning is that when I’m, say, speeding through the woods on a geared bike, I am constantly evaluating the gear I’m in and thinking about what gear I want to be in for upcoming terrain and when I want to shift. Similar to driving a manual. When I don’t have the option to shift, I have none of those gear-y thoughts.

Sure there are other thoughts flowing through my head on gearless bikes like — in off-road riding — picking lines or figuring out when to pedal, when to stand, when to shift balance or pull up on the front, etc.. Or on the unicycle (which I can’t yet do off-road) thinking about figuring out how to duck under a branch or how to start resisting to slow down for the downhill, how to body english around the corner, how to adjust balance to roll up onto a curb cut, etc. So lots of thoughts, but none of them are gear-y.

If the point is just that driving a manual requires you to “tune in” more to the vehicle and that riding a FG requires you to tune-in to the surroundings, I would say that there is plenty of geared riding that requires an extreme level of “tuned-in”. Racing, for example, in any of the cycling disciplines. And mountain biking in general is extremely engaging, sometimes am amazed how mentally tiring it can be riding technical off-road.

[DismalScientist]

We’ve had this discussion before. Riding geared bike is like driving a manual transmission car without a clutch and jamming the transmission into whatever gear you want. Riding a single speed is like being stuck in a single gear after completely screwing up your transmission by the prior behavior. Riding a fixie is like a single speed but with the engine idle set too high so you can’t effectively coast.

[mstone]

@DismalScientist 123972 wrote:

We’ve had this discussion before. Riding geared bike is like driving a manual transmission car without a clutch and jamming the transmission into whatever gear you want. Riding a fixie is like being stuck in a single gear after completely screwing up your transmission by the prior behavior.

Also, like putting a 6 inch chrome tailpipe on your civic because it will make your engine more powerful and make you look cool at the same time.

[dkel]

You can “engine brake” in a manual transmission car and on a fixie.

[DismalScientist]

True, but engine braking in an overdrive gear going downhill isn’t very effective. I’m too old for my legs to be very effective jake brakes.

[wheelswings]

@creadinger 123768 wrote:

A crazy ivan on a MUP caused a crash and serious injuries.

http://www.bicycling.com/culture/news/cyclist-awarded-300000-after-collision-runner%3Fcid%3DsocBICShareRW?cid=soc_BicyclingMag_TWITTER_Bicycling__

In the barely two weeks since creadinger posted this link, I can count on two hands the number of runners who’ve done these nifty U-turn maneuvers on the trail in front of me…including another one this morning on the WOD.

Competitive running was my world for many years…ever since I was a kid, actually. I like runners. But I think that many just don’t think about trail safety. I’m wondering if some simple educational signage would help, something like,
Look B4 u U.

[JimF22003]

This followup story was just posted in the local Roanoke paper:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/columns_and_blogs/columns/dan_casey/casey-greenway-crash-s-impact-widely-felt/article_25d997cf-4d96-5421-9219-e3e95d6583e0.html

[dasgeh]

@JimF22003 124649 wrote:

This followup story was just posted in the local Roanoke paper:

http://www.roanoke.com/news/columns_and_blogs/columns/dan_casey/casey-greenway-crash-s-impact-widely-felt/article_25d997cf-4d96-5421-9219-e3e95d6583e0.html

Thanks for posting. I thought it was pretty fair handed, until this:

Quote:

None of the above makes Bundy any kind of bad person, of course. This was a freak accident of random and bad timing. It likely never would have happened if Bundy had turned three seconds earlier or later. Or, if he had looked behind him

*facepalm* It was not a freak accident. It was a crash, caused by the fact that the jogger unexpectedly, without warning, without looking, turned into the cyclist. To answer the others who are wondering what to do to avoid this, the answer is simple: if you are going to turn around or significantly change your position on the trail, LOOK BEHIND YOU. It’s really not that hard. You could even stop and turn in your place, if you can’t turn your neck.

[TwoWheelsDC]

@dasgeh 124658 wrote:

To answer the others who are wondering what to do to avoid this, the answer is simple: if you are going to turn around or significantly change your position on the trail, LOOK BEHIND YOU. It’s really not that hard. You could even stop and turn in your place, if you can’t turn your neck.

When I’m walking on the trail and making a left turn, I tend to do sort of a crosswalk-type turn, where I step off the trail to the right, then turn left to check left/right, then cross perpendicular to the path.

[americancyclo]

@TwoWheelsDC 124666 wrote:

When I’m walking on the trail and making a left turn, I tend to do sort of a crosswalk-type turn, where I step off the trail to the right, then turn left to check left/right, then cross perpendicular to the path.

^^^^^ This.

[mstone]

@dasgeh 124658 wrote:

*facepalm* It was not a freak accident. It was a crash, caused by the fact that the jogger unexpectedly, without warning, without looking, turned into the cyclist. To answer the others who are wondering what to do to avoid this, the answer is simple: if you are going to turn around or significantly change your position on the trail, LOOK BEHIND YOU. It’s really not that hard. You could even stop and turn in your place, if you can’t turn your neck.

Mmm, I think “freak accident” is still a fair characterization. Crazy Ivans happen hundreds of times per day on every trail in the country, and serious injuries are almost unheard of. That doesn’t negate the good advice to not be a knucklehead, but it’s also worth acknowledging that the reason joggers don’t bother is that it is basically never a problem on average. So I’d phrase it as “yeah, it’s a freak accident, but the cost of preventing the freak accident is also just about zero”.

[Vicegrip]

Accident perhaps. Freak accident no. I have seen the actions that led up to this all too many times. Every Crazy Ivan is another roll of the dice. Enough rolls and you will hit the loosing combo.

People need to consider MUPs as little roads. Rather than cars, motorcycles and trucks MUPs have walkers joggers and cyclists. Plenty of speed deltas on roads and MUPs and the rules should be the same. Slower traffic stays right Stay in your lane. Signals are required. No one would make a U turn in their car without checking their mirrors. I don’t honk at every car I pass on 495 I don’t need to the car is expected to stay in its lane unless it otherwise signals and even then only changes lanes when it is clear to do so.

[Author]

Posts