Its probably not worth mentioning this to the NBC folks, right?

[bentbike33]

@lordofthemark 159469 wrote:

But Baltimore is “Baltimore, Baltimore County”.

Actually, there is both a Baltimore City in Maryland, and a Baltimore County, which largely encircles Baltimore City (much like Fairfax City and Fairfax County in VA). Baltimore City is treated as a county equivalent in Census data, as is Alexandria city, Fairfax city, and Falls Church city, Virginia. Wide swaths of Fairfax County are named for adjacent independent cities testifying to Fairfax’s lack of identity. Thus, in NBC I show up in Falls Church based on my postal address, even though I do not live in “The Little City” but in a soulless section of Fairfax County.

I blame the Postal Service.

[Emm]

@lordofthemark 159469 wrote:

They have Alexandria listed as “Alexandria, Fairfax County” As annoying as I find that, I don’t suppose they have a category for independent cities? Though New York appears to just be “New York” But Baltimore is “Baltimore, Baltimore County”. Which in contrast to Alexandria, Fairfax, does not even exist AFAIK.

Alexandria Fairfax county does exist–I live there, as do a few other forum members. It’s the area of Fairfax county that’s just south of Old Town. It’s called Alexandria for postal purposes, but it is part of Fairfax county. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandria,_Virginia

A large portion of adjacent Fairfax County mostly south, but also west of the city is named “Alexandria,” but it is under the jurisdiction of Fairfax County and separate from the city; the city is sometimes referred to as the City of Alexandria to avoid confusion (see the “Neighborhoods” paragraph below). In 1920, Virginia’s General Assembly voted to incorporate what had been Alexandria County as Arlington County to minimize confusion.

I’m guessing since this is nation-wide, they don’t understand the nuances of this area where “Alexandria” refers to both Alexandria city, and the portion of Alexandria within Fairfax county… Or they’re system can’t handle the difference and relies on what your address says . It is honestly pretty weird that we have this split in Alexandria between “City of” and “postal zone that’s part of Fairfax.”

[lordofthemark]

That’s what I meant – Alexandria, Fairfax, whatever I might think of it, and however much I want the independent City of Alexandria highlighted, does exist, whereas Baltimore, Baltimore County does not (there is Towson, Baltimore County, Dundalk, Baltimore County, Pikesville, Baltimore County, but I think no place called Baltimore outside of Baltimore City) – which makes them calling it Baltimore, Baltimore County, even weirder.

[lordofthemark]

@bentbike33 159470 wrote:

Actually, there is both a Baltimore City in Maryland, and a Baltimore County, which largely encircles Baltimore City (much like Fairfax City and Fairfax County in VA). Baltimore City is treated as a county equivalent in Census data, as is Alexandria city, Fairfax city, and Falls Church city, Virginia. Wide swaths of Fairfax County are named for adjacent independent cities testifying to Fairfax’s lack of identity. Thus, in NBC I show up in Falls Church based on my postal address, even though I do not live in “The Little City” but in a soulless section of Fairfax County.

I blame the Postal Service.

If you want to get even MORE technical (and hey, why not?) there is no Falls Church City. Or Fairfax City. There is the City of Falls Church, and the City of Fairfax

Though I suppose that is the level of quibbling that would lead to asking them to call Virginia a commonwealth instead of a state.

[peterw_diy]

@Emm 159471 wrote:

It is honestly pretty weird that we have this split in Alexandria between “City of” and “postal zone that’s part of Fairfax.”

No, I’m afraid it’s not.

“Ever since the ZIP Code system for identifying address locations was devised in the 1960s, some citizens have wanted to change the ZIP Code to which their addresses are assigned. Because ZIP Codes are often not aligned with municipal boundaries, millions of Americans have mailing addresses in neighboring jurisdictions”

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA462043

FYI there are also City of Alexandria parcels with Arlington addresses, and single family home parcels that have the City boundary cut through them.

[baiskeli]

@Emm 159471 wrote:

I’m guessing since this is nation-wide, they don’t understand the nuances of this area where “Alexandria” refers to both Alexandria city, and the portion of Alexandria within Fairfax county… Or they’re system can’t handle the difference and relies on what your address says . It is honestly pretty weird that we have this split in Alexandria between “City of” and “postal zone that’s part of Fairfax.”

It’s because in every other state, one can be in both a county and city at the same time – they can overlap. In Virginia, most cities are “independent” and have no county, meaning Alexandria is a city and Alexandria in Fairfax County is an unincorporated neighborhood and they aren’t linked in any way other than the name. Having grown up in Va. that make perfect sense to me and I was surprised to learn other states have overlapping cities and counties.

[Emm]

@baiskeli 159523 wrote:

It’s because in every other state, one can be in both a county and city at the same time – they can overlap. In Virginia, most cities are “independent” and have no county, meaning Alexandria is a city and Alexandria in Fairfax County is an unincorporated neighborhood and they aren’t linked in any way other than the name. Having grown up in Va. that make perfect sense to me and I was surprised to learn other states have overlapping cities and counties.

Yea, I grew up in Michigan, and your address matches your city/township/village generally. So local governments were organized into your city or township or village, which report to the county, which reported to the state. So I lived in Bloomfield Hills, part of Oakland County, which was part of Michigan. All 3 levels had local or state government duties.

Peterw_diy is totally correct on people who live on borders though–that’s normal to not have postal codes match and I’m sure that’s a nationwide issue since borders are a fluid thing. But I still find it very unusual that there are MASSIVE swaths of land that all have the same name around here, even though they’re entirely different jurisdictions. Moving from a place like Michigan with relatively defined boundaries to Fairfax County, which has all sorts of weird postal code names, was a pretty confusing experience.

[lordofthemark]

@peterw_diy 159486 wrote:

No, I’m afraid it’s not.

“Ever since the ZIP Code system for identifying address locations was devised in the 1960s, some citizens have wanted to change the ZIP Code to which their addresses are assigned. Because ZIP Codes are often not aligned with municipal boundaries, millions of Americans have mailing addresses in neighboring jurisdictions”

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA462043

FYI there are also City of Alexandria parcels with Arlington addresses, and single family home parcels that have the City boundary cut through them.

I hadn’t really intended to make this all about the parts of FFX with Alexandria addresses (that is not where most of the people on the “Alexandria” leaderboard live, but just want to point out that border crossing zips is not really the only thing going on. There are zip codes (for example 22310) that are entirely within Fairfax County, that have an Alexandria address. Its just that in the absence of any incorporated places in the nearby sections of Fairfax, the USPO does not recognize any other places worth naming there. Though IIRC if you put “Kingstowne, VA” on your envelope, it will get delivered. Not sure if you were to put say “Huntington” or “Franconia” or “Hybla Valley”.

[lordofthemark]

@baiskeli 159523 wrote:

It’s because in every other state, one can be in both a county and city at the same time – they can overlap. In Virginia, most cities are “independent” and have no county, meaning Alexandria is a city and Alexandria in Fairfax County is an unincorporated neighborhood and they aren’t linked in any way other than the name. Having grown up in Va. that make perfect sense to me and I was surprised to learn other states have overlapping cities and counties.

Another silly quibble – its not like there is a particular unincorporated neighborhood in FFX that is “Alexandria” The USPO uses that designation for areas due south of the City along Rte 1, well southwest, like Kingstowne, and due west, like Lincolnia.

Similarly the Falls Church part of Fairfax includes both the area west of the City of Falls Church (which until 1870 or so was part of the then Town of Falls Church) as well as the Culmore/Baileys Crossroads area. I don’t think anyone really considers say Skyline, and Fairview Park, to be the same neighborhood.

[bentbike33]

@lordofthemark 159534 wrote:

Though IIRC if you put “Kingstowne, VA” on your envelope, it will get delivered. Not sure if you were to put say “Huntington” or “Franconia” or “Hybla Valley”.

It will be delivered (or at least the probability is high) so long as the street address and ZIP code are legible and correct. You probably don’t even need to list city or state.

[lordofthemark]

@bentbike33 159536 wrote:

It will be delivered (or at least the probability is high) so long as the street address and ZIP code are legible and correct. You probably don’t even need to list city or state.

:p

[Kitty]

@baiskeli 159523 wrote:

It’s because in every other state, one can be in both a county and city at the same time – they can overlap. In Virginia, most cities are “independent” and have no county, meaning Alexandria is a city and Alexandria in Fairfax County is an unincorporated neighborhood and they aren’t linked in any way other than the name. Having grown up in Va. that make perfect sense to me and I was surprised to learn other states have overlapping cities and counties.

That is the oddest thing. Where I’m from towns/cities/townships/villages etc. are contained within counties, and the county within the state, and the state in the country–just like little nesting dolls.

@Emm 159530 wrote:

Yea, I grew up in Michigan, and your address matches your city/township/village generally. So local governments were organized into your city or township or village, which report to the county, which reported to the state. So I lived in Bloomfield Hills, part of Oakland County, which was part of Michigan. All 3 levels had local or state government duties.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]14728[/ATTACH]

You know what’s up! Also, I didn’t know you were from Bloomfield Hills. When my grandfather’s job transferred him to Detroit from Chicago in the 60s, bringing my mom’s side of the family to Michigan, they settled in Bloomfield Hills. This was well before she ended up in Saint Clair County (Port Huron) where I was born. :p

[ursus]

@Kitty 159747 wrote:

That is the oddest thing. Where I’m from towns/cities/townships/villages etc. are contained within counties, and the county within the state, and the state in the country–just like little nesting dolls.

Independent cities are uncommon in the US. Most of them are in VA. One which is not in VA is Baltimore which is independent of Baltimore County. OTOH, New York City consists of 5 counties (New York, Kings, Queens, Bronx, Richmond).

FWIW, there are many towns in Germany which are not part of counties (Landkreise).

[Author]

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