It’s dark = lights

[Crickey7]

I agree, this is a bit of a solution in search of a problem. It’s actually been done before–a teenage invented such a light about a decade ago–but there’s no real demand for it. I find the bigger problem is that cars tend to guage the gap to leave based not on proximity to you , but to the next car. That’s true for motorcycles as well. Perhaps a jacket with a rear proximity sensor and lighting message across it might work.

[peterw_diy]

@GB 97194 wrote:

I’m pretty sure one could rig the wiring in a standard light such that contact isn’t made until the break cable is pulled.

Nashbar used to sell a cheap brake light that relied on a compression switch mounted on the rear brake cable. It was great though not very durable.

Some ebike systems use switches at the brake lever to engage regenerative braking. Typically these are connected to flat-bar V/disc brake levers IIUC.

A number of companies also sell lights that are supposed to detect deceleration though I’ve read that hitting bumps triggers false positives.

[krazygl00]

@creadinger 97038 wrote:

This is the wrong crowd to write this to, because I know none of us is suicidal and lights have been discussed ad nauseum.

Grammar win. Thank you.

@rcannon100 97136 wrote:

There is a big big difference between a strobe and a blinkie. Strobes, well they JUST SUCK. Based on requests from this forum, I always run my lights on solid (no blinks) while on trails.

Comments on the trail ~ My attitude is that people are not going to get the message the first time. They probably wont get the message the second time. Maybe not even the third. But if we all politely repeat the message “light or reflectors please” ~ ninjas will get the message. Someone who hears that enough times on the trail will most hopefully have an epiphany.

I second the use of solid lights on the trail. My practice has been solid lights on the trail where they are less likely to be confused with a motor vehicle, and where you want to spare the eyes of other trail users; blinky lights on the road where demand for attention is at a premium and you definitely want to disambiguate yourself from cars.

If I have a near miss with a ninja my ire gets up and I usually call out “you need a light!”. I am fairly certain they are hearing this as “your knees are tight!”

@Terpfan 97139 wrote:

It’s also a reminder to make sure the batteries are charged. I forgot last year and battery went out on MVT before OT while rear blinky worked. Some other kind cyclist slowed down and offered to let me follow him with his light on to OT (from there I could take city streets with lights on a longer way back).

I did this once for someone…and on the MVT as well. It might have been me.

That dude was awesome.

Yep it was me.

[bobco85]

@PotomacCyclist 97189 wrote:

I like how wide the Cateye Rapid 5 tail light is, even if it’s a little tricky to position under the seat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04-p1aTl5Y8

[IMG]http://bikearlingtonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6825&stc=1[/IMG]

I bought a front light, which was part of a combo with the tail light. It has a different blink pattern from that seen in the video. There’s a standard blink mode and a side-to-side pattern, along with Constant Mode.

Thanks for linking the video. I really like the “pulse” function, but to be nitpicky, I’d slow the pulse rate down. I’m currently satisfied with my Planet Bike Superflash, but I will consider this for future purchases because I think it’s the best way to go.

[Harry Meatmotor]

@acl 97144 wrote:

Curious if the study emulated real-world conditions including first noticing and recognizing the light as something to pay special attention to? Or was this just looking at the ability to judge speed/direction of something once you were asked to pay attention to it?

Anecdotally, (ie, in my personal experience as a driver), there are a lot of steady-on red lights on the road at night– the tail lights of other cars, which are mostly moving at car-speeds. One more steady-on red light doesn’t immediately catch the eye and trigger the brain to “pay attention to this something different over there that might be moving at a different speed”. I totally believe that, if you are paying equal attention to a steady light vs a flashing light it is easier to judge the speed and distance of the steady light. I am more skeptical that in real-world conditions, people are paying equal attention to judging the speed and distance of those two things.

It was a detection then recognition style study; detect & recognize at different angles of incidence and distance. There was minimal light pollution, too. The best implementation of smart lighting on emergency vehicles that I’ve seen (in VA) is the flash-flash-steady-on brake lights that many emergency vehicles use when the driver hits the brake pedal. That’s probably the best way to imagine a two part detection and recognition cognitive task at it’s most effective. On a bike, some lights have a steady on lower wattage lamp with a higher wattage flashing lamp; flasher = detection, steady-on = recognition.

[mstone]

@Harry Meatmotor 97219 wrote:

It was a detection then recognition style study; detect & recognize at different angles of incidence and distance. There was minimal light pollution, too. The best implementation of smart lighting on emergency vehicles that I’ve seen (in VA) is the flash-flash-steady-on brake lights that many emergency vehicles use when the driver hits the brake pedal. That’s probably the best way to imagine a two part detection and recognition cognitive task at it’s most effective. On a bike, some lights have a steady on lower wattage lamp with a higher wattage flashing lamp; flasher = detection, steady-on = recognition.

Right, but a lot of cyclists are looking for another phase in addition to detection & recognition: the “oh, I should look up from the cell phone” phase. Alas, I’m not sure you can achieve that with the light of a thousand suns. Self driving cars can’t come soon enough.

[PotomacCyclist]

@bobco85 97211 wrote:

Thanks for linking the video. I really like the “pulse” function, but to be nitpicky, I’d slow the pulse rate down. I’m currently satisfied with my Planet Bike Superflash, but I will consider this for future purchases because I think it’s the best way to go.

I might have a different CatEye model. Maybe an earlier version. The plastic casing is vanilla white on my bike light, and it doesn’t blink nearly as fast as those in the video, I think. I usually leave it on the side-to-side setting, where the lights shift left-right-left in a repeating pattern.

I don’t bike commute that much in the winter. When I ride outdoors in the winter, I take a combination of well-lit trails, near-empty roads and bike lanes on near-empty roads. I don’t ride on the MVT that much in winter, so I get by with a lower-powered front light just fine.

The only two times I’ve nearly been hit from behind were instances when the drivers were being intentionally aggressive, so the tail light wouldn’t have mattered. One time was on Bell St., by the courtyard a block from the Crystal City Metro entrance. It’s not a thru-street, but some guy was gunning his car. I clearly heard him approaching from behind and turned around, both to see where I should go and also to get his attention. I got his attention all right. He sped up, passed by me, and then started swearing his head off at me! I didn’t gesture or shout at him at all before his rant.

But I’ll still use the tail light. I have an older Blackburn light too, which is much smaller. I don’t use that one any more.

[Supermau]

Interesting stuff. Since I’ve currently got three ultra bright tail lights going I think I’ll try leaving a couple on static with the middle on blink. Gotta see what that looks like.

I run my headlamp full on at 750 lumens on the MVT on Saturday morning commutes. I have been called for blinding once then I adjusted the lamp a bit more downward. I wish I had a dimmer button within an easy thumbs reach but thats probably asking too much. I run it in the daytime strobe setting when the sun is out pretty much 100% of the time, as well as a blinkie in the back.

In the end, something is infinitely better than nothing. It’s a jungle out there.

[Starduster]

😎 Multiple topics in one thread! Responding to the first:

Memo to any *bike ninjas* out there: You might think you’re cool and avoiding all manner of “perceived threats”, but you are blind (pun intended) to the other risk- a motorist whose only clue they hit someone is their passenger saying, “Honey, I felt a bump!”

That said, there are just too many riders out there after dark with no lighting at all, observed on a daily basis. Sometimes the only way I see them (besides carefully maintained lights on both car and the ’81 Trek) are because of the only reflectors that haven’t been removed/fallen off- on the pedals. As noted by others, with our bunch, I am “preaching to the choir” here. I know that. We’ve certainly spent time here complaining about being blinded by glare on the MVT. More on *that* in a separate reply, coming later. SO… we have a responsibility to pass on our knowledge to others- to be teachers. There are plenty of fellow cyclists who are unaware of the risk. Or the need.

Both Revolution Cycles and BikeArlington have done lighting giveaways on the trails. Bravo. Keep it up. Though there is always the question of how many you actually reach- measured by what happens when it is finally time to change the batteries. That shouldn’t be an excuse “not to”.

There is one segment of the cycling community that presents a challenge in reaching- many “working poor” who are just plain happy to have wheels, period. For your reference, the BikeArlington blinkies retail for $20 a pair. Which might be a hard sell for someone working his a__ off at minimum wage. That many are part of the growing Latino community in Arlington adds to the cultural/language challenge. But it is still important to connect with them, for everyone’s sake. They *are* our fellow riders, after all. The bike is an ideal way to bridge all these barriers.

Stay tuned- later I am going to issue an open challenge to US market lighting vendors.

[Starduster]

As promised:

We were talking about glare earlier. All of us, moi included, have stories of being blinded by oncoming riders’ headlights on the trails, steady mode, or worse, in flash mode (POP POP POP!). Yet we all have to be able to see where *we* are going. The problem- when the first high power LED emitters arrived (blue LED with yellow phosper coating), they first finally exceeded the output of a traditional AA Mini-Maglite, then transcended the best that a Euro-spec 6 volt 3 watt halogen bike bulb could do. And rapidly advanced from there. While there have been hi-power battery lights powered by water bottle-size Ni Cads for some time, you now had a light source so powerful that blinding oncoming motorists/riders had to be dealt with. (Disclosure- I am that Euro-lighting Geek your parents warned you about, lol.) In Germany, the one place where there are bicycle lighting codes as precise as SAE and ECE automotive lighting codes, the StVZO spec evolved to mandate limits on glare. So your current German commuter bike will have a dynamo-powered headlight with a beam that is very much like an automotive low beam lamp. Light *on the road*, but not in oncoming drivers’ eyes.

Here is what is possible. The headlight is a Busch & Muller Lumotec IQ Premium CYO T, dynamo powered (there is a battery powered IXON IQ available with the same emitter and optics).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6835[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6836[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6837[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6838[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]6839[/ATTACH]

As it appears on the road at speed, and on the wall. Very sharp beam cutoff. Oncoming eyes are above the light’s hot spot. As you see, the hot spot is… quite hot. The last pic (on the next posting) is a Bontrager Ion 2 at full brightness, for reference.

My open challenge to all the US market lighting vendors- Listen to your customers! Particularily with the new & evolving urban cyclist market in mind! There are many wonderfully high-powered headlights on the market, but nearly all of them (at the high end) are designed with off-road racing in mind. Those requirements are very different than the commuting or city cyclist who *must* share the road with others. Beyond “safety lights” that simply allow you to be seen, I have seen *no* domestic brand put out a “city” headlight to equal product from Busch & Muller, SON, or Supernova. No one has considered the oncoming glare issue. The need is there. The opportunity is there. And if you get StVZO approval for your creation, there’s your entry into the European market!

A thought on blinkies: Remember a few decades ago, when the best light out there was an incandescent dynamo headlight? There was a guy, local, who put out an auto battery powered kit with an automotive glass sealed beam fog light. Yes it was heavy. He chose a construction barricade flashing light for the rear. Which said much about the attitude of the time. A defensive device. Go to present time, and all the front and rear flashing lights remain defensive devices to get the attention of cars and trucks that could otherwise kill them. I do run a combination of steady and flashing rear on the road. On the bike trail, you no longer need to run the defensive lighting mode. The heavy vehicles are gone, and *you* are now the “biggest meanest mutha” on the trail. Steady mode is so much more polite- a hint that hi-powered flashers are just plain rude.

[Starduster]

That last pic: [ATTACH=CONFIG]6840[/ATTACH]

[mstone]

The problem is that consumers buy lumens. Just read the threads here–the majority of people looking for a light will prefer a $10 1000 lumen flashlight to a $100 400 lumen headlight that puts most of its output on the road. And it seems unlikely that shaped beams will ever get as cheap as flashlight beams because actual engineering is required for the emitter+reflector compared to a parabolic mirror with a hole for the led. Large scale change would require legislation, and we are just not Germany.

[Starduster]

Bravo Zulu! Well said! 😎 Sue Fuchs

[DismalScientist]

Perhaps it is not lumens, but instead the need to pay a significant fraction of the price of a bike for a simple headlight.

[dkel]

@DismalScientist 97298 wrote:

Perhaps it is not lumens, but instead the need to pay a significant fraction of the price of a bike for a simple headlight.

What are you, an economist? :rolleyes: Sheesh!

[Author]

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