Is cycling the new golf?

[jabberwocky]

I have occasionally ridden through part of the trump national golf club on the way home from work (its an easy way to connect Seneca Park back up to the roads at the edge of great falls). Have to jump a gate to leave, but its a nice shortcut.

[dplasters]

@lordofthemark 96510 wrote:

In the case of outer suburban courses they are likely to become low density housing (isn’t that course in Reston, south of the Toll Road, supposed to become townhouses – low density, autocentric style townhouses, not exactly a major contribution to regional urbanist goals) – IMHO might as well stay a golf course. If I were king, I would make courses like that solvent, and in exchange get courses with much more development potential sold – the two I have in mind are the Army Navy course in Arlington, and Carver Langston in DC. Both are in locations where high density mixed use (with some well programmed park space) could advance several public purposes But the former is where the admirals and generals play I guess, and is quite solvent – and the latter while public (so the proceeds of a sale could go to support DC govt purposes) is historically significant IIUC as the first course open to african americans in the region. So neither is going anywhere anytime soon.

At least we are getting a bike route across Army Navy.

Yeah Reston National is under fire. Its privately owned and makes money but with the silver line opening up next door the stockholders smell more money and are willing to sell to develop what you are talking about. Fairfax County has it zoned as “open space” or something like that. The zoning board has turned them down several times, so I don’t think its going anywhere. *I have edited this section cause my original understanding was totally wrong.

I wouldn’t expect Army Navy (ANCC) to go anywhere. They have two facilities in very strong locations and (despite the name) take members from the general public. Very expensive to join because of the prime locations. I looked into it. The Fairfax property is very very close to my house and I would have a quick bike ride to a round of golf. I dislike having to get into my car to play but I don’t have any 18 hole options near the house otherwise. Golf would have to not just decline but basically implode for the major Country Clubs in the area to sell.

I heard they were trying to do a super revamp of Langston to try and get it in tournament condition and use the historically black aspect of it to try and drum up PGA Tour / Mini Tour interest. I’m sure that won’t happen either. It will continue to be a run of the mill meh golf experience and neither a great park or a great urban area.

[americancyclo]

@jrenaut 96500 wrote:

And that’s my perspective – the vast majority of my rides are transportation. And I bike because it’s either easier, faster, or makes me happier, or some combination of the three.

Which is selfish, but that’s ok. That’s why I ride too
If I had more free time, I’d ride my bike more, but if I have even MORE free time, I might try to hit some clubs now and again. I’ve always had fun on driving ranges and golf courses. Plus not all my friends ride bikes.

[lordofthemark]

@dplasters 96522 wrote:

Yeah Reston National is under fire. Its privately owned and makes money but with the silver line opening up next door the county has a zoning loophole they can use to force the course to close. A bit of a weird situation. They have no real legal recourse so all they can do is hope that public support for the course sways the zoning folks.

I am pretty sure I read the club wants to sell, and the zoning loophole was one that would allow it to sell, and not be forced to remain open space. County can’t force a private owner to sell for development in Virginia (even were that poltically possible)

ah, here we go

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-state-of-nova/post/reston-national-golf-course-owner-hints-at-tearing-it-out-building-on-land-near-two-new-metro-stations/2012/08/22/f78e574e-ec09-11e1-a80b-9f898562d010_blog.html

[dplasters]

@lordofthemark 96525 wrote:

I am pretty sure I read the club wants to sell, and the zoning loophole was one that would allow it to sell, and not be forced to remain open space. County can’t force a private owner to sell for development in Virginia (even were that poltically possible)

ah, here we go

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-state-of-nova/post/reston-national-golf-course-owner-hints-at-tearing-it-out-building-on-land-near-two-new-metro-stations/2012/08/22/f78e574e-ec09-11e1-a80b-9f898562d010_blog.html

Yeah I was running off my vague memory. I already updated my original post. They have given up the re-zoning fight apparently.

http://www.reston.org/NewsCenter/RestonNationalGolfCourse/Default.aspx?qenc=HzT9ACzZbNs%3D&fqenc=bSBrQw5RYW1xnxXiyhjEWw%3D%3D

So the king has gotten his way… kinda

*On Topic* for like the first time ever for me in this thread:

I do think cycling is likely the “new” golf in that it can be used to socialize etc. I do wonder how well you can socialize while riding but it appears to be possible. Like all hobbies there are ups and downs in the amount of people that participate. Hopefully the increase in cycling popularity can get pushed up by more cycling infrastructure and it will be seen less as a hobby and more as an actual form of transportation. So the hobby might ebb and flow but cycling in general will continue to grow. (See tennis boom of the 70s, golf boom of the late 90s early 00s). I did get a laugh out of the CNN article calling road riding “relatively less expensive”. Golf can be done cheaply or expensively, just like bike riding. I can imagine the choices running through their minds “5k on clubs (gotta get new ones every 3 years, just like road bikes… trust me) and 5k on green fees or 9k on a new bike?” “Biking is a steal!” :rolleyes:

Jai alai will be the new cycling or raquetball or something.

[Crickey7]

@dplasters 96527 wrote:

Golf can be done cheaply or expensively, just like bike riding.

9 holes at RCP for $15. That’s less than one jar of embrocation.http://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/paceline-eurostyle-warm-embrocation-8oz-jar?gclid=CJDe6YHuncECFStgMgodETYAEA Although I just slap some Sriracha sauce on.

[Steve O]

@lordofthemark 96510 wrote:

I have in mind are the Army Navy course in Arlington,. . . is where the admirals and generals play I guess, and is quite solvent –

I highly doubt this course is truly “solvent.” According to their website, it occupies more than 500 acres of land in Arlington County. In my neighborhood, which is single-family residential in west Arlington, land is approximately $3.5-$4 million per acre. Land that close to Pentagon City and could be zoned higher density might be worth $10 million an acre or more.

So their property is worth $1.5 billion on the very low side and perhaps as much as $5-$10 billion (or more) on the high side. Real estate taxes in Arlington are about 1%. Is the club paying $15 million (or $50-100 million) in taxes to the county? If not, then they are being subsidized by the rest of us taxpayers and are not “solvent.”

[consularrider]

@hozn 96498 wrote:

Sure, or mountain biking on those trails.

If we take out general benefits of exercise, which arguably can be shared by golfing (assuming you walk), I would suggest that the benefit to society from cycling is pretty limited to cycling for transportation. What greater societal benefit does, e.g., track cycling provide? Mountain biking? Road cycling? Cyclocross?

Golf course rough = cyclocross courses?

[dplasters]

@Steve O 96530 wrote:

I highly doubt this course is truly “solvent.” According to their website, it occupies more than 500 acres of land in Arlington County.

The combined 500-plus acres in Arlington and Fairfax

http://www.ancc.org/club/scripts/library/view_document.asp?NS=PUBLIC&DN=GOLF

Not that it means they aren’t subsidized in some way. I have no idea. But my guess is the Arlington part is around 200 Acres. Last I saw the initiation for non military members was over 40k someone I talked to said nearly 70k and the monthly dues put it at around 5k a year to be a full member.. so they still have a chance of being solvent. Depending on how they have invested the funds over the years I could see it. Either way, out of my league for the convenience of being able to bike to play golf. I’ll get in my car thank you very much.

God bless google. Yes, ANCC is tax exempt but nothing about property taxes. But it says they had 26 million in income….

Lets not even discuss Belle Haven.

9 holes at RCP for $15. That’s less than one jar of embrocation.http://www.niagaracycle.com/categori…FStgMgodETYAEA Although I just slap some Sriracha sauce on.

Did not know that existed…..

[rcannon100]

Not reading this closely, I will boldly contribute.

I work in a typical civilian agency. And as with all civilian agencies, this is managements bible:

Offices are fiefdoms and staff are not allowed to cross office barriers to talk to the working stiff in the next cubicle.

Cycling has torn down those barriers. Cycling has been the great networking means within the agency that has allowed staff to “tear down those walls.” More work has gotten done in the last year because cyclists in the building know each other and pick up the phone and talk to each other. I have learned more in the locker room about the status of work, than I have in staff meetings. I have made several crucial contacts even through this forum and hauled a few of you before my agency to explain yourselves.

One of Steve Jobs innovations was to build his office building with a common space and a common bathroom, forcing the staff to come together into a common space and actually, you know, talk to each other. Cycling is like that. It is cross fertilization. It is the destruction of barriers by staff which, you know, are healthy and are probably more productive employees in the first place.

I go into team meetings and laugh – half the people in the room I know through cycling. It has been one of the best networking tools I have experienced (outside of Ultimate Frisbee which helped me land this job).

[baiskeli]

And, of course, on my way home today I passed a guy on a bike carrying golf clubs on his back.

He don’t care ’bout no golf vs. bike controversy.

[W Odie]

@baiskeli 96541 wrote:

And, of course, on my way home today I passed a guy on a bike carrying golf clubs on his back.

He don’t care ’bout no golf vs. bike controversy.

I used to do that in junior high school. Biked to the local municipal golf course, played 18 holes, and biked back home.

[AFHokie]

@baiskeli 96541 wrote:

And, of course, on my way home today I passed a guy on a bike carrying golf clubs on his back.

He don’t care ’bout no golf vs. bike controversy.

If I tried that, you could follow me by the trail of random clubs I’d drop along the path. Of course it wouldn’t likely be a long trail since I’m sure a club would find it’s way into my spokes.

[dbb]

@dplasters 96535 wrote:

Not that it means they aren’t subsidized in some way. I have no idea. But my guess is the Arlington part is around 200 Acres. Last I saw the initiation for non military members was over 40k someone I talked to said nearly 70k and the monthly dues put it at around 5k a year to be a full member.. so they still have a chance of being solvent. Depending on how they have invested the funds over the years I could see it. Either way, out of my league for the convenience of being able to bike to play golf. I’ll get in my car thank you very much.

God bless google. Yes, ANCC is tax exempt but nothing about property taxes. But it says they had 26 million in income….

According to the Arlington Property Records https://propertysearch.arlingtonva.us the Army Navy and Marine Corps Country Club (who knew that was the full name?) (parcel 32001006) has 253 acres and is assessed at $134 million. They paid $1.3 million in property taxes in 2014 and according to the county’s on line records, they are not tax exempt (from property taxes?).

[Author]

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