Intersection of Doom story

[kcb203]

@bobco85 85342 wrote:

Was kinda bored this afternoon and disappointed in the lackluster improvements that are on the way for the Intersection of Doom, so I decided to come up with an alternative that I think could be possible. Throwing caution to the wind, here goes my redesign:

Currently the area looks like this:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5598[/ATTACH]

My redesign (trying to look realistic):
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5599[/ATTACH]

My redesign with labels:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5600[/ATTACH]

I really wanted to solve the danger in having 2 right turn lanes from the I-66 off-ramp so I eliminated right turns from those lanes. Now, if possible I would have a bridge to cross over the I-66 off-ramp to avoid the new crossing I created, but I figured the at-grade crossing would be more likely. Also, I do not think the boathouse is ever happening so I figure Arl Co or NPS will buy the private property and eliminate the useless driveway.

I was inspired by Steve O’s design when making this (I really like his idea of splitting the I-66 off-ramp), even if it doesn’t quite look the same as his. Hopefully something can be done to make this intersection safer.

Sorry, but crossing a ramp is a bad idea. I bike to work in Reston and ride on the Fairfax County Parkway trail for a mile where it crosses the entrance/exit ramps for the toll road and Sunset Hillls. Crossing those ramps is terrifying–cars are absolutely not thinking about bikes.

[dasgeh]

@kcb203 85348 wrote:

Sorry, but crossing a ramp is a bad idea. I bike to work in Reston and ride on the Fairfax County Parkway trail for a mile where it crosses the entrance/exit ramps for the toll road and Sunset Hillls. Crossing those ramps is terrifying–cars are absolutely not thinking about bikes.

An unsignalized, at grade crossing is a bad idea, I agree, but bobco’s/Steve O’s idea would allow a signal to be put in there, which would cause methinks, less confusion than making the I-66 exit no-turn-on-red.

[jrenaut]

Making the 66 exit no right on red would just be one more ticket that wouldn’t be given to the 100% of drivers who would turn anyway. I don’t think that’s a feasible solution. I mean, unless you make MD-DC-VA all no turn on red, ever, which we should do for at least the dense counties.

[bobco85]

@kcb203 85348 wrote:

Sorry, but crossing a ramp is a bad idea. I bike to work in Reston and ride on the Fairfax County Parkway trail for a mile where it crosses the entrance/exit ramps for the toll road and Sunset Hillls. Crossing those ramps is terrifying–cars are absolutely not thinking about bikes.

I agree that those crossings in Reston you mentioned are absolutely terrible. The combination of the curve, high speed, obstructions, and poor sightlines make for such a bad situation that cars cannot even see the crosswalk until they are too close to it to really slow down.

I figured that if the lane was more straight and the area around the crosswalk clear of any obstructions, drivers would have more time to see people approaching the crosswalk. I also kept the road width at one lane and added the rumble strips as a reminder for them to slow down and (hopefully) pay more attention.

[dasgeh]

@bobco85 85388 wrote:

I agree that those crossings in Reston you mentioned are absolutely terrible. The combination of the curve, high speed, obstructions, and poor sightlines make for such a bad situation that cars cannot even see the crosswalk until they are too close to it to really slow down.

I figured that if the lane was more straight and the area around the crosswalk clear of any obstructions, drivers would have more time to see people approaching the crosswalk. I also kept the road width at one lane and added the rumble strips as a reminder for them to slow down and (hopefully) pay more attention.

Unfortunately, drivers don’t seem to want to slow down for at grade crossings that aren’t at intersections. Ever. Especially on highway on/off ramps. I used to cross the ramps between 27/Washington Blvd and 50 daily, and I still do it every once in a while, and the percentage of drivers who properly yielded was around 2%. At least one of those (from 50 WB to 27 SB) has good sightlines, just bad drivers.

My hope is that a traffic signal — even one that only cycles through when called (like on Washington Blvd between Pershing and 50) — will be put in and I’m confident cars will stop for the red light. Probably the best solution for everyone is a signal that automatically cycles from, say, 6am – 9pm, and from 9pm – 6am cycles when called.

[Steve O]

@jrenaut 85384 wrote:

Making the 66 exit no right on red would just be one more ticket that wouldn’t be given to the 100% of drivers who would turn anyway.

Actually, if the red light is an arrow, drivers will (mostly) obey it. So if the ramp were to have directional arrows for traffic signals (straight and right turn) it would clarify for drivers when they may proceed and when they must stop. I think most drivers understand a red right-turn arrow means they must wait; they cannot treat it like a regular right-on-red.

[jrenaut]

@Steve O 85407 wrote:

Actually, if the red light is an arrow, drivers will (mostly) obey it. So if the ramp were to have directional arrows for traffic signals (straight and right turn) it would clarify for drivers when they may proceed and when they must stop. I think most drivers understand a red right-turn arrow means they must wait; they cannot treat it like a regular right-on-red.

Come ride up 15th St NW with me this evening and see if you still think that. Last week I saw a car turn left on red from the center lane in front of a DC police officer.

[mstone]

@jrenaut 85408 wrote:

Come ride up 15th St NW with me this evening and see if you still think that. Last week I saw a car turn left on red from the center lane in front of a DC police officer.

was he kinda in the intersection? because once you’re the intersection, the rules no longer apply.

[chris_s]

@Steve O 85407 wrote:

Actually, if the red light is an arrow, drivers will (mostly) obey it. So if the ramp were to have directional arrows for traffic signals (straight and right turn) it would clarify for drivers when they may proceed and when they must stop. I think most drivers understand a red right-turn arrow means they must wait; they cannot treat it like a regular right-on-red.

Fun fact*: Turning right on a red arrow is probably legal in Virginia barring a “no right on red” sign to accompany it.

*This fact is not in any way fun.

[chris_s]

So here’s my crazy-ass Intersection of Doom question for the day:

Where are these drivers even coming from? I mean, I know they’re coming from westbound I-66, but where did they start? Are they…
1) Starting in DC, taking I-66 or 50 west across the bridge as a shortcut to Georgetown from other parts of DC?
2) Coming from the 395 corridor or the route 1 corridor to 110 and taking 110 to 66?
3) ??

There are only so many roads that dump into I-66 prior to Rosslyn.

[chris_s]

@chris_s 85427 wrote:

Fun fact*: Turning right on a red arrow is probably legal in Virginia barring a “no right on red” sign to accompany it.

*This fact is not in any way fun.

Nevermind, it appears the Virginia code has actually been updated since then.

Wow, the Virginia legislature actually got something done.

Notwithstanding the provisions of § 46.2-833, except where a traffic control device is placed permitting turns on a steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red arrow, after coming to a full stop, shall remain standing until a signal to proceed is shown.

[mstone]

@chris_s 85434 wrote:

Nevermind, it appears the Virginia code has actually been updated since then.

Wow, the Virginia legislature actually got something done.

Notwithstanding the provisions of § 46.2-833, except where a traffic control device is placed permitting turns on a steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red arrow, after coming to a full stop, shall remain standing until a signal to proceed is shown.

Don’t worry, they still won’t cite you for it unless you’re on a bike.

[dasgeh]

@chris_s 85431 wrote:

So here’s my crazy-ass Intersection of Doom question for the day:

Where are these drivers even coming from? I mean, I know they’re coming from westbound I-66, but where did they start? Are they…
1) Starting in DC, taking I-66 or 50 west across the bridge as a shortcut to Georgetown from other parts of DC?
2) Coming from the 395 corridor or the route 1 corridor to 110 and taking 110 to 66?
3) ??

There are only so many roads that dump into I-66 prior to Rosslyn.

Don’t forget that after drivers turn right onto Lynn St, they can turn left onto the GWP northbound.

FWIW, in college, I’d drive through there often going from Costco at Pentagon City to Gtown (fun fact: a lot of kids at Gtown don’t like/know how to drive in the “city”. I’d drive people to Costco/the mall/anywhere in exchange for the free ride and use of cargo carrying capacity).

Oh, and from the Key Bridge NB you can get on the Whitehurst Freeway EB.

I’d venture most of the trips of the right-turners start in Virginia along Rte 1.

[eminva]

@dasgeh 85437 wrote:

I’d venture most of the trips of the right-turners start in Virginia along Rte 1.

I agree with that, or originating along the 395 corridor but with destinations in the westernmost sector of the city (Georgetown, Palisades, etc.).

Liz

[americancyclo]

Where’s the AAA heatmap when you need it?

[Author]

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