Infrastructure Repairs in Arlington

[Subby]

At the very least, the ped and bike traffic should ALWAYS get a walk signal when Columbia Pike gets a red there. I might get a walk signal on red there every other time through.

[dasgeh]

@Subby 87512 wrote:

At the very least, the ped and bike traffic should ALWAYS get a walk signal when Columbia Pike gets a red there. I might get a walk signal on red there every other time through.

Wait, so it’s really only button activated? I don’t go through there often and didn’t realize this. That’s a horrible situation for cargo bikes — the buttons are not easy to get to. Let me know if you need pictures to demonstrate why this is a bad idea.

[Subby]

It’s a terrible situation because you have traffic turning right off of 4MR Dr. on to Columbia Pike (they have a green) and it is hard to tell how much time you have to cross. I don’t even know where the button is for westbound crossings.

[dasgeh]

@Subby 87518 wrote:

It’s a terrible situation because you have traffic turning right off of 4MR Dr. on to Columbia Pike (they have a green) and it is hard to tell how much time you have to cross. I don’t even know where the button is for westbound crossings.

It’s WAY over to your left — not at all where it should be.

[Anonymous]

@dasgeh 87516 wrote:

Wait, so it’s really only button activated? .

My theory is there’s a guy hidden somewhere watching the intersection, arbitrarily deciding who gets to go and who doesn’t, soup-nazi style.

“No Walk Signal For You”!!

[mstone]

If pedestrians got a walk on every cycle that would reduce the vehicle LOS and we can’t have that. Metrics, you know.

[PotomacCyclist]

@dasgeh 87516 wrote:

Wait, so it’s really only button activated? I don’t go through there often and didn’t realize this. That’s a horrible situation for cargo bikes — the buttons are not easy to get to. Let me know if you need pictures to demonstrate why this is a bad idea.

It’s a bad idea at many other intersections too. There are other intersections in Arlington (Pentagon City/Crystal City) where the WALK signal is only activated if someone presses the button. I’ve found this to be hazardous for pedestrians. Pedestrians might assume that they can walk through the crosswalk when the light turns green in their direction. But car drivers who are turning, left or right, through that crosswalk sometimes get frustrated and ticked off at pedestrians who have waited for the light, but didn’t receive a WALK sign. I had one driver try to force me out of the crosswalk as I was walking through it. I’ve seen the same happen to others walking in crosswalks in these situations.

I brought this up at one of the County-sponsored bike lane meetings. I was told that the signals people in Arlington do not want to slow down cars at those intersections. I’m not sure why WALK signals would slow down cars. Maybe the green light lasts longer if the WALK signal is on, because there is a minimum time for WALK signals to remain on?

What about some sort of sensor in the sidewalk that would detect pedestrians? Maybe this would be too expensive to add to every intersection, but what about at key intersections on busy roads? That could cut down on the cost and allow the County signal engineers to keep the WALK signals off most of the time. But it would activate the WALK signal when the sensor detects a pedestrian waiting to cross.

[Steve O]

@dasgeh 87516 wrote:

Wait, so it’s really only button activated? I don’t go through there often and didn’t realize this. That’s a horrible situation for cargo bikes — the buttons are not easy to get to. Let me know if you need pictures to demonstrate why this is a bad idea.

Even if the buttons were located perfectly, it’s still bad. If I get to the light just as it’s turning green or just after, then I would have to wait through the entire light cycle even though there is ample time for a bicycle to cross (unless I choose to cross on the “Don’t Walk”). The much, much better solution is to install a bike traffic signal, which removes any ambiguity. It also serves to alert drivers that cyclists will be crossing at the same time they may be turning.

[consularrider]

@PotomacCyclist 87558 wrote:

… I brought this up at one of the County-sponsored bike lane meetings. I was told that the signals people in Arlington do not want to slow down cars at those intersections. I’m not sure why WALK signals would slow down cars. Maybe the green light lasts longer if the WALK signal is on, because there is a minimum time for WALK signals to remain on?…

This was what was explained in a post about three years ago. There are many, many lights in Arlington where if there is only one car to trip a light, the green only lasts about 10 seconds. If you press the walk demand button, that makes it last at least 30 seconds. Oh those poor suffering drivers.

[chris_s]

I’m in the early stages of pushing Arlington to actually have a traffic signals policy. Right now, there really isn’t one, which makes it hard to effectively say “hey, you’re doing it wrong”. I am gathering a list of intersections with many bikes & peds where you still have to hit the button to get a walk signal. Please email me / private message me intersections where this is the case. Same with bike-heavy intersections that do not detect bikes, especially if they have bike lanes.

[consularrider]

I assume you won’t mind if we send you information you already know?

[dasgeh]

@chris_s 87621 wrote:

I’m in the early stages of pushing Arlington to actually have a traffic signals policy. Right now, there really isn’t one, which makes it hard to effectively say “hey, you’re doing it wrong”. I am gathering a list of intersections with many bikes & peds where you still have to hit the button to get a walk signal. Please email me / private message me intersections where this is the case. Same with bike-heavy intersections that do not detect bikes, especially if they have bike lanes.

N Pollard at Lee Hwy doesn’t get auto-WALK. There are some great shops on either side of Lee there, and we’re seeing increasing ped traffic. It’s also used as an alternative to 5-Points (Lee, Old Lee, Old Dominion, Quincy and Military) because 5 Points is HORRID for peds.

I’ll check 5-points for you, though it’s not currently used by as many peds.

A related issue: wide, bike-heavy intersections with inadequate yellow phases. The one I’m thinking of in particular is Veitch at Lee Hwy — there isn’t enough time for a bike to go through the intersection and turn onto the trail during the yellow phase — I’ve been caught in the intersection slowing for the tight turn as Lee Hwy got green. Very dangerous. Now that I think of it, I don’t think that intersection has auto-WALK, either.

[consularrider]

Two items.

The first is related to dasgeh’s post above about the Veitch/Lee Highway yellow issue. Riding eastbound through that intersection this morning I noticed that the signal for vehicle traffic turned yellow while the pedestrian countdown signal was at 5 and the red came on while the pedestrian light still read “1.” I am familiar with at least two other lights in Arlington with this issue, the pedestrian light on N Ft Myer Dr for crossing Wilson Blvd in Rosslyn and the pedestrian light at 4MR Dr/W&OD crossing George Mason Dr. My personal belief is that having the pedestrian signal still counting down while the vehicle light turns yellow/red is very dangerous, particularly where the lights are inconsistent. All the lights in the county should be set to have the same type of display.

Second, Custis Trail repaving. Is there any update on the status? I noticed this week that there are now orange arrows on two small sections that make me believe they will be repaved. There is the section along the St Ann parking lot near the .5 mile post and the other from the 11th St N access to the first N Abingdon St access (one of the mogul sections).

[chris_s]

@consularrider 87662 wrote:

I assume you won’t mind if we send you information you already know?

Not at all, please err on the side of providing information!

[chris_s]

@consularrider 87727 wrote:

My personal belief is that having the pedestrian signal still counting down while the vehicle light turns yellow/red is very dangerous, particularly where the lights are inconsistent. All the lights in the county should be set to have the same type of display.

What do you find dangerous about it? Presumably traffic crossing the peds does not get a green until after the countdown has hit zero. I believe this generally happens on wide intersections which have a longer all-red phase than normal to help ensure that the intersection has cleared before the green signal is given to the other direction.

[Author]

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