I-66 HOT lanes proposed, with multimodal improvements

[scoot]

@mstone 106322 wrote:

In general, a crappy trail is better than no trail. At least there’s the possibility of improvement–if you don’t preserve a right of way, it’s much harder to do anything.

That is certainly true. My post was more of an observation than a complaint, since there are good alternatives. Plus any kind of pedestrian connectivity, even if it’s unrideable, is good for cyclists too, since most of us can quickly convert to pedestrians on the fly if necessary.

I am concerned though that such a trail might lure unsuspecting newbies into trouble. For instance, it looks very appealing on the official Arlington County Bike Map, where it shows up as an off-street trail, colored identically to the WOD, Custis, MVT, etc. The reality is that this one should be considered a pedestrian, not bicycle, facility. Cyclists should be permitted but encouraged to ride elsewhere. Admittedly maps quickly get very complicated if they attempt to convey too much info about the differences from one trail or street to the next.

I am definitely curious to see how VDOT plans to push a trail through the Fairview Park / 495 / Gallows Road gauntlet along Arlington Blvd (project 34B). I’ve ridden across the beltway at Lee Highway and at Gallows Road before, each of which is a little scary but manageable. Crossing at route 50, however, just looks frightening.

[lordofthemark]

@scoot 106337 wrote:

That is certainly true. My post was more of an observation than a complaint, since there are good alternatives. Plus any kind of pedestrian connectivity, even if it’s unrideable, is good for cyclists too, since most of us can quickly convert to pedestrians on the fly if necessary.

I am concerned though that such a trail might lure unsuspecting newbies into trouble. For instance, it looks very appealing on the official Arlington County Bike Map, where it shows up as an off-street trail, colored identically to the WOD, Custis, MVT, etc. The reality is that this one should be considered a pedestrian, not bicycle, facility. Cyclists should be permitted but encouraged to ride elsewhere. Admittedly maps quickly get very complicated if they attempt to convey too much info about the differences from one trail or street to the next.

I am definitely curious to see how VDOT plans to push a trail through the Fairview Park / 495 / Gallows Road gauntlet along Arlington Blvd (project 34B). I’ve ridden across the beltway at Lee Highway and at Gallows Road before, each of which is a little scary but manageable. Crossing at route 50, however, just looks frightening.

As a recent newbie myself, let me chime in. Anyone riding with a County bike map, knows SOMETHING, at least. I often hear concern about second rate infra – low quality MUTs/MUPs, door zone bike lanes, etc. I do not have data, but my strong impression is that far more cyclist accidents (other than those caused by egregious driver behavior) happen on conventional sidewalks (not MUPs) or riding in the street but against all VC rules (hugging the gutter, salmoning, riding without lights in the dark, etc, etc) IE things done by teens, by immigrants from very different road cultures, and others unlikely to carry a bike map.

[dplasters]

I wonder where/how far 34.B can really take you. 50 going west after Gallows is entirely unbikeable save for some access roads that have you jumping back and forth across the road a couple times and even then I don’t think you can string together a bikeable path to Fairfax Circle where 50 and 29 meet. I’d love to be able to just cruise down 50 and then glide over 14 lanes of highway traffic to work, but I don’t see that happening any time soon.

I work in fairview park. Lee Highway is the better solution in my opinion. Lower speed limits, more lights, lane widths already so wide you can add a bike lane with just some paint movement.

But I’m very intrigued to see what they imagine they can design.

-Also, rebuilding/designing Cedar Lane going over 66 would be a god send. That road could be a great N/S option other than Gallows.

[dasgeh]

@scoot 106310 wrote:

I recently walked the existing trail on the north side of 50 from Glebe eastbound to Jackson, over that green bridge, and then the trail on the south side of 50 from Jackson to Fillmore. It was a wet but not icy day. I had never cycled this trail before and I doubt I ever will, at least not faster than about 7mph. Tree roots frequently compromise the pavement. The curve about 400 feet west of the cemetery entrance could easily throw a westbound rider into the roadway, especially if it’s at all slippery. Sediment had been deposited in large clumps on the path at the drain west of Irving. Also nearly got right-hooked (does that term apply to peds?) by a driver who took a right turn off 50 way too fast directly in front of me onto S Hudson.

So I sure hope this project is executed better than the existing sidepath. Because while there are bike-friendly street alternatives to the portion I walked (N Pershing, 2nd St S), that’s not the case further out in Fairfax County.

I ride on the south side fairly often, as it’s my commute if I drop the kids off at preschool (George Mason – 2nd St S entrance to Fort Myer). I take the 50 trail from G Mason to Irving, then use Irving to cut over to 2nd Street S.

The trail from G Mason to the bridge is fine, but speed is limited to around 10 mph. It’s better than walking, but I agree that MUPs should be designed and maintained so that a cargo bike (i.e. long wheelbase) can travel at 15 mph safely. The beg button at the exit from 50 EB and Glebe (which is where the trail crosses Glebe) has got to go.

From the bridge, you can stay on TJ Park property, and the trail is much, much nicer than the 50 sidepath on the north side of the fence. My understand is that a certain neighborhood is in the process of upgrading the trail in that area (east of Irving?) as an NC project. [sidenote: THIS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE AN NC PROJECT!!!! IT BENEFITS THE ENTIRE COUNTY, NOT JUST THAT NEIGHBORHOOD!!!]

WABA has done some great work to identify what needs to be done to make a continuous 50 trail from DC through Fairfax. They even made a snazzy booklet. The Arlington fixes are the easiest, and the staff and leaders I’ve talked to about it have been very, very positive. So there’s hope.

[DanB]

I’m sure you’ve all probably received the email from WABA …

They note that VDOT will be holding three meetings next week. I plan on going to the one at Oakton High School in Vienna.

Who else is planning on going?

[scoot]

@dasgeh 106348 wrote:

The trail from G Mason to the bridge is fine, but speed is limited to around 10 mph.

It looks bad on StreetView: just a sidewalk between George Mason and Glebe, which gets narrow as vegetation encroaches over a stone wall at the beginning of the exit ramp to Glebe. Is that right?

I guess one could take the extra lane on the road if eastbound, but that would require dealing with merging vehicles rapidly accelerating and decelerating.

[dasgeh]

@scoot 106351 wrote:

It looks bad on StreetView: just a sidewalk between George Mason and Glebe, which gets narrow as vegetation encroaches over a stone wall at the beginning of the exit ramp to Glebe. Is that right?

I guess one could take the extra lane on the road if eastbound, but that would require dealing with merging vehicles rapidly accelerating and decelerating.

It’s a sidewalk that’s on the wide side, for sidewalks. I would not be concerned passing someone at a slow pace (hence the 10mph caveat). The vegetation is not currently a problem (it was the first time I used it, I reported it, and it was dealt with a few weeks later when I tried it again).

[PotomacCyclist]

I added the link for public comments to the 1st post of the thread. That should make it easier to find. The deadline for public comments is Feb. 14.

You can send comments to the MWCOG through their online form, email or written letter.

[Steve O]

@DanB 106350 wrote:

They note that VDOT will be holding three meetings next week.

Do you mind adding them to the Forum calendar above?

[mstone]

@scoot 106337 wrote:

I am definitely curious to see how VDOT plans to push a trail through the Fairview Park / 495 / Gallows Road gauntlet along Arlington Blvd (project 34B). I’ve ridden across the beltway at Lee Highway and at Gallows Road before, each of which is a little scary but manageable. Crossing at route 50, however, just looks frightening.

It would actually be really easy–you just reduce 50 at that crossing from a one mile long interstate highway to the kind of road it is on either side of that spot, and you’d have plenty of ROW for trails on both sides.

That is quite possibly the most telling example in the area of misguided highway funding.

[dplasters]

@mstone 106371 wrote:

It would actually be really easy–you just reduce 50 at that crossing from a one mile long interstate highway to the kind of road it is on either side of that spot, and you’d have plenty of ROW for trails on both sides.

That is quite possibly the most telling example in the area of misguided highway funding.

You still have to deal with traffic merging on/off from a combination of Gallows, Fairview Park and 495 though. I can’t imagine the intersection with Gallows ever being changed to a typical intersection and I can’t imagine they would ever cut off the ramp access that fairviewpark / 50 have to 495. My imagination is a 1.5 mile long sky bridge solution.

*Edit – Or it will be the Disneyworld solution (aka see thread in road and trails on worst bike lane in Maryland).

[ATTACH=CONFIG]7651[/ATTACH]

[sjclaeys]

I know that I will be scorned by the self-righteous for this, but I worry that further restricting 66 will increase commuters going through Arlington to use Washington Blvd, Lee Highway and neighborhood streets for their commute. It is already bad as it is.

[ShawnoftheDread]

@sjclaeys 106404 wrote:

I know that I will be scorned by the self-righteous for this, but I worry that further restricting 66 will increase commuters going through Arlington to use Washington Blvd, Lee Highway and neighborhood streets for their commute. It is already bad as it is.

You seem to be saying that doing one thing could have a bad effect on another thing. Crazy talk.

[chris_s]

@sjclaeys 106404 wrote:

I know that I will be scorned by the self-righteous for this, but I worry that further restricting 66 will increase commuters going through Arlington to use Washington Blvd, Lee Highway and neighborhood streets for their commute. It is already bad as it is.

But is it really a further restriction? How many folks are in a 2 person carpool who can’t get to a 3 person carpool with a little extra work + now people who were completely forbidden from using I-66 (because they can’t get a carpool) CAN use I-66, if they pay. Hard to say if it’ll be a net increase or net decrease in people using 66; and it may push some folks to transit or biking or who knows?

[TwoWheelsDC]

@sjclaeys 106404 wrote:

I know that I will be scorned by the self-righteous for this, but I worry that further restricting 66 will increase commuters going through Arlington to use Washington Blvd, Lee Highway and neighborhood streets for their commute. It is already bad as it is.

Not to mention that these I66 alternate routes are largely out of Arlington’s jurisdiction (for lack of a better word) as well, and it seems unlikely VDOT will do much to discourage this (speed tables in Westover please!).

[Author]

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