How.To.Ride.Faster

[lordofthemark]

@vvill 144998 wrote:

I wouldn’t bother trying to reduce the weight of the bike, but I agree with Vicegrip that riding position and tires can help. You could have someone look at your riding position. Generally: the more forward your saddle and the lower your bars, the faster you will go. But obviously you need to more flexible and it can be also harder to see as far ahead, and there’s more of your weight on your front wheel so handling is a little different.

If you’re running knobby MTB tires, slicks or urban tires or even a gravel tire will be quite a bit faster.

But obviously also just ride more and ride harder. Go to Hains Pt (or similar) and do a loop as fast as you can. Then do another. etc.

I am running Ryder Freedom tires, 700×38. ” an off-road tread at heart, tempered with a road going attitude.”

Perhaps it was a mistake to replace my OEM tires (which were at the end of their useful life) with these, instead of something narrower and slicker?

The rear tire has 2,300 miles on it, and the front one has just under 1000 miles (I bought them separately) so I expect them to last for some time.

[huskerdont]

@lordofthemark 145070 wrote:

I am running Ryder Freedom tires, 700×38. ” an off-road tread at heart, tempered with a road going attitude.”

Perhaps it was a mistake to replace my OEM tires (which were at the end of their useful life) with these, instead of something narrower and slicker?

The rear tire has 2,300 miles on it, and the front one has just under 1000 miles (I bought them separately) so I expect them to last for some time.

Never a mistake to try out tires, and you’ve got good use out of those so far. You could always buy something faster, put them on, and compare. Keep these for the winter/grundgy conditions and use the faster ones for nice weather and smooth surfaces.

[mello yello]

38’s are big! I find it does make a difference. I’ve got a spare set of 28’s in slick if you want to try them out for a while. I used to ride 35 Pasella’s, which were nice and kushy but kept me pretty slow. I find that 28’s get me through the road junk just fine, thick enough get me over curbs and the other obstacles on my Anacostia – to – Courthouse commute, and are thin enough to be fast on the nice paved stretches.

That and I’ll echo what others said: As for the bike, hand position, seat position, and clipless. I’m not sure you can swap for drop bars but if you’re running a riser you may consider trying a flat bar. Clipless helps me climb, I can sit on my seat and PULL with my hamstrings. It’s a complete workout. If I want to go fast I just sit and think about pedaling in a circle and feeling the muscles work. Seat position becomes pretty important here… As for training, I wouldn’t know… I only log miles commuting, but I’ve got a couple of areas that are forced sprints because of playing in traffic.

[ctankcycles]

Your existing tires are over 650g each. You could lose rotational weight by switching to something like a 32c Panaracer Pasela folding tire which is just over 400g. That’s about 500g of weight savings which is over a pound.

[hozn]

For an effortless speed boost, put on some 28mm Conti GP4000S II tires; that will be about the largest difference you can make with tires. Then you can start changing the things that take work: body position (develop the core strength to be comfortable in a more aggressive position) and obviously fitness.

When you feel you have the fitness and the strength/flexibility to be comfortable in a road-bike position you can start shaving seconds by shaving your legs, getting a more aero helmet, getting a more aerodynamic like setup (in order of the $/watt value proposition).

The real way to get faster, though, is to push yourself to go faster. The bike doesn’t really matter. Ride with people that drop you; that is always humbling. Set goals in Strava and achieve them. Etc.

[vvill]

@lordofthemark 145070 wrote:

I am running Ryder Freedom tires, 700×38. ” an off-road tread at heart, tempered with a road going attitude.”

Perhaps it was a mistake to replace my OEM tires (which were at the end of their useful life) with these, instead of something narrower and slicker?

Dang, so I have to admit I actually hate those [urban] tires. I had a set in 32mm that was stock on my CX bike, and I quickly switched them out. They wear slowly but they’re heavy/slow. The kicker for me was that the tread pattern would actually pick up small pieces of gravel that you’d have to then pick out!

FWIW I’ve run 32mm Ritchey Speedmax Pro tires for salty winter roads and general gravel riding and they’re < 400g each, and inexpensive. Can't corner too sharply on pavement with the side knobs, but I don't think you're doing that anyway. Really you can run whatever you want, and as long as you ride harder, your body will [or *should*] try to adapt. But I think above 28-32mm for paved riding (especially with that amount of rotational weight) is a little overkill unless you are specifically trying to make your ride harder than it needs to be. And making your ride feel smoother and faster will make you want to ride more. (I’ll also insert an old tale here: when I first moved to this area I tried a commute on a weekend on a 30+ lb 26″ MTB. It was exhausting, and I gave up on the idea of commuting for years after that attempt, until I brought over a 700c flat-bar road bike I previously owned and joined a BTWD convoy.)

[lordofthemark]

So, do core exercises and weight lifting to be able to ride a road bike? Meh. I like biking because I don’t have to go to a gym Anyway, as long as I don’t really have to do them till I am about to buy the road bike, which is not soon. But the good news is about the tires. Seems like an investment I might want to make. I guess I would still ride the wide tires in winter? So either get the new ones soon and change back to wide tires in December, or get narrower tires in the spring. I mean I do want to keep getting use out of my relatively new Ryder tires.

I assume the suggested tires (28mm Conti GP4000S II tires) will not result in a lot of flats? I am still not very good at flat fixing, and one reason I got the Ryder tires was because I was a bit freaked out at several flats in succession (as my OEM tires hit the end of their useful lives) and just asked for a good tire for riding on crappy surfaces.

[Arlingtonrider]

I’ve been riding those exact same tires since Spring. Love them! No flats so far. (knocks on wood)

[ctankcycles]

@lordofthemark 145106 wrote:

I assume the suggested tires (28mm Conti GP4000S II tires) will not result in a lot of flats? I am still not very good at flat fixing, and one reason I got the Ryder tires was because I was a bit freaked out at several flats in succession (as my OEM tires hit the end of their useful lives) and just asked for a good tire for riding on crappy surfaces.

The GP4000S II is a very good choice and while considered quite durable for a true road tire it’s not going to provide the durability of something like the Ryder or even a Pasela. If you want something a little more durable without sacrificing the speed of the GP4000S II you might consider the Conti Grand Prix 4 Seasons. They’re essentially a more durable, all weather version of the GP4000S II. From the webz…

“Both tires use a 3/330 TPI carcass and are handmade in Germany. To make the 4 Season an all-season tire, Continental designed this tire with a double layer of Vectran breaker under the tread, an extra layer of DuraSkin from bead to bead, and a silica compound which is optimized for cold and wet weather.” More here… http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/continental-grand-prix-4-season-2015

More about the GP4000S II here… http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/road-bike-reviews/continental-grand-prix-4000s-ii-2014

[hozn]

@lordofthemark 145106 wrote:

So, do core exercises and weight lifting to be able to ride a road bike? Meh. I like biking because I don’t have to go to a gym

Oh, I thought you were asking about how to ride faster; you can ride slowly/casually on a bike without doing anything at all. And of course you do not need to go to a gym to ride a bicycle (you also don’t need to go to a gym to do core exercises). Core strength helps if you want to be comfortable for long rides, but really the way to get faster on a bike is simply to ride more. Eventually, once you are pushing yourself to ride those 12+ hours a week, you might find that having a little bit of cross training helps prevent injuries.

[lordofthemark]

Let me just clarify that whatever advice I take, and however I react to particular ideas, I do appreciate the ideas and thoughts and effort everyone has put in to answering my questions. This is a great community, and ideas that do not work for me, may well work for someone else who reads this.

Now as for me, I really was hoping to find some ideas that involved not too major expenditures of money, and not really major changes to lifestyle (other than maybe riding more) My goal (as I said in response to RootChopper) is to get moderately faster, to keep up better with at least the slower folks in the community – it is not to start getting KOMs’ or to race or anything like that. I think I have gotten lots of good advice that will work for me. I doubt I will end up shaving my legs anytime soon, and I don’t even think I will get a road bike real soon. I think in equipment I need to focus on tires – and I have lots of good advice on improving my motor, which mostly amounts to riding more, to focusing in certain segments (I think for me that is probably going to mean hills at first), and to riding more with people somewhat faster than me.

[Anonymous]

@hozn 145090 wrote:

you can start shaving seconds by shaving your legs, getting a more aero helmet, getting a more aerodynamic like setup (in order of the $/watt value proposition).

I’d like to see your math on this please. I agree that leg-shaving requires a significantly lower up-front cost, but taking into account replacement of razors/blades, shaving cream, and possibly extra moisturizing lotion over the lifetime of a helmet? I am less convinced. And particularly if you are going to buy a helmet anyway and only need to account for the marginal cost of a more-aero vs. less-aero one. :p

[hozn]

@Amalitza 145138 wrote:

I’d like to see your math on this please. I agree that leg-shaving requires a significantly lower up-front cost, but taking into account replacement of razors/blades, shaving cream, and possibly extra moisturizing lotion over the lifetime of a helmet? I am less convinced. And particularly if you are going to buy a helmet anyway and only need to account for the marginal cost of a more-aero vs. less-aero one. :p

Good points! I didn’t really consider the long-term costs in ordering those “next steps”. Not to mention the incalculable social costs [among non-cyclists] associated with men shaving their legs.

[Steve O]

Keep in mind that improvements in aerodynamics make less difference at lower speeds. The wind tunnel tests on shaved arms and legs are at racing speeds where aerodynamics are more important. Similarly for an aero helmet. At lower speeds friction is a bigger issue, so tires loom larger.

[hozn]

That’s actually a good (and helpful) point. Plus aero helmets are hotter, which isn’t great. And the cost/watt of aero wheels is huge. So rolling resistance is a great place to get a few free watts and just generally make the bike feel nicer.

The GP4000S tires are fine around here in my experience. I only ever got flats once they started wearing down. The GP 4 Seasons are nice too, but quite a bit slower rolling if I remember right. These tires also won’t last long; that is part of the equation here. 2500 miles is probably about as much as you can expect out of either a GP4S or 4000S rear tire. Latex tubes might make some noticeable difference too, while we are talking tires.

Of course, I would recommend tubeless as the best choice, but it takes a bit more commitment and up-front investment. But that mostly solves issues with flatting, especially in the larger tire sizes.

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